Joey Stuckey 0:00

Welcome once again to the Stuck on Sound Podcast, where we try to bring you entertaining, informative people who are at the top of their game. And it's always a privilege. I'm so impressed and just grateful that I have had the opportunity to have so many amazing people on the show. And uh today is no exception. And I've been looking forward to this all week. This has been the thing I've been hanging my hat on all week. It's like today I could have talked to Tom. I have Tom Camuso here, who's a fantastic uh engineer and more importantly, a stellar human being. And I'm so excited to talk to him about all the cool things he is doing. Tom, welcome to the program. I appreciate your time, my friend. Hey, buddy, thanks for having me. Yeah, I mean, this is this is exciting. You know, uh you you have done a lot of cool things, and um and we'll talk about most of them. We'll leave a few things for people to find on the dark web. Uh, but um what I what I want to start with, because I'm so interested in in you know how you how you got into the music business. I always think that that's a fun story because I mean, if we were sane, we would not be in this business. We would I mean, you know, you got to be a little crazy to be in the music business. And you, but you've done some cool stuff. I mean, I I know I was reading through your your bio, and I mean I want to tell you how impressed I am that your bio is actually really short where like I couldn't condense mine down. I had so much to say. Like my bio is ridiculous. Uh, I haven't done I haven't worked with the some of the stars you have, but my bio is is just like this unwieldy document. But anyway, um, I know that I know that one of your early experiences um w was uh doing some stuff with Lenny Kravitz. So just tell me a little bit about how you got in the business and why and um and and how that all started for you.

Tom Camuso 1:50

Yeah, well, like I think it's not a a unique story. Most engineers are failed musicians. We all wanted to be rock stars. So and I uh am no exception. I I started when I was like 17, I got um a record deal with Epic Records. Nice. And I dropped out of high school and pursued that. I came out to California to make a record out at AM. And like every other band, you you know, you break up. And my thought then was um I would go back to New York and get a job in a recording studio and just find, you know, hand pick the best musicians and and get another record deal and in a couple months be back out in LA making records. And um, so I went back to New York. I got a job in a recording studio, and it was actually the studio where Lenny Kravitz was making his records. And it was right, you know, he was starting to have all the hits and starting to get paid, and basically the studio, he sort of absorbed the studio and it became basically all him. So I just ended up working in the studio with Lenny, and it was easy then to see that he was a rock star and I was not a rock star.

Joey Stuckey 3:14

So that's how dare he shatter your illusions.

Tom Camuso 3:17

Yeah, so but uh but it was great because I got to actually learn from a rock star how to make great records, and his records were very much about the the recording process, and and you know, it was always going after a certain vibe and a certain sound. Um, and again, I was not making his records, I was just an assistant. I, you know, was the guy setting the mics up and and and you know doing that stuff, but I got to watch um for about almost you know seven or eight years I was with with those guys and just watching how great records were made and and you know and and seeing the process. So, you know, once that ran its course, I then started a string of my own studios all over New York, and and I still have uh my studio in Brooklyn today.

Joey Stuckey 4:09

So, I mean, I I want to I want to backtrack just a second because tell me a little bit about uh what uh I mean are you a guitar player or what's your what's your instrument? What was your rock star tool?

Tom Camuso 4:21

Yeah, I was a guitar player. I mean, I don't really play, I play a little of everything in the studio just when there's downtime, but I wouldn't say I'm a a musician at this point.

Joey Stuckey 4:32

I gotcha. And and and I have to say now, as a blind man, uh you know, microphones are are my jam. I I uh I lust after them. Uh I I may have a problem. I may need some therapy. But I mean they are you know ear substitutes, you know. And um I want to I want them all, I'm trying to catch up with Sylvia Massey, which is probably not gonna happen. But uh it's my dream um to have this as many mics as she has. But um, but I do think that, you know, you know, when you were saying you were the guy who sat up the microphones, I mean, I do think that is really uh where a lot of the magic happens. I mean, that's you know, to me, that's that's really one of the things that uh a lot of uh the I hate to say this, it makes me sound really old, but uh the kids today are are not learning as much of that technique as as you know as I did when I first started. And and how I first started was the scientific method, what happens if I do this? I mean, that's you know, it it's just that. But what tell me what like like with with your you know setting up microphones and being part of the Kravitz thing, and you know, I mean his guitar tones and drum tones, you know, are just some of the greatest in the industry. I mean, just for the for the vibe. I mean, just uh but but I mean obviously you get to learn and and see some of that, but I mean, how do how do you feel about mic technique? What do you think the most important thing is for you as an engineer? What gets you through your process to make a record?

Tom Camuso 6:04

Well, I mean, with the Lenny stuff, he was you know, he plays everything. He plays the drums, the guitars, the bass. Yeah, a lot of it is he's great, you know. Yeah, you put any mic in front of someone who's great and you're it's gonna sound great. Um, so that's a piece of it, but um obviously gear is important. Um you know, it goes both ways. You can make a great record with little to no equipment, and you could also make a great record with great equipment, you know. Right. Um, I think guys like us uh you know came came into it before computers, so you didn't have the options that you have now where you can go, well, I'm just gonna put a modeler on it and add the room, or I'm gonna, you know, take out the the 60 cycle hum that's in the amp, or you know, because RX. Or you just have all these tools where you can just go, let's just keep moving, don't worry about it, I'll fix it later. Where you know, you and I had the microphone, and that was it in the room that you were in. So, and you know, usually just a couple guitars or amps to pick from. So your choice was move the microphone, you know, or you know, do whatever you can with your the limited options you have to make it great. So, you know, it's just sort of a different mindset. And now, I mean, I'm lazy like everyone else. I've adopted a lot of the you know, the the the practices of of the new engineers with all the tricks and and you know melodyning and and you know dynasisting and vocal lining and all that stuff. Yeah, but I like to use everything in moderation and use stuff when it's useful and when it's you know it's invisible. And I still like using old compressors, but I'll I'll you know sometimes put a super fast plug-in in front of it so that you know it's doing the bulk of the heavy lifting of the compression, and I'm getting the vibe off the old tube tube compressor. That is really clever.

Joey Stuckey 8:12

That is a that is an excellent point. I hadn't thought of doing that. You're that was that you're give me some secret sauce here.

Tom Camuso 8:18

Yeah, there's all sorts of tricks you can. I mean, you know, I'm all for the technology when it works. Yeah. Um obviously, sometimes it, you know, people use it as a crutch and they'll just go, all right, give me another one, give me another one, give me another one. And then they walk away, go, do you think you got what you need? It's a guessing game of whether you can piece it all together. Yeah. So um, so that's where it, you know, it starts to get you go down a road that I don't like to do. But but there are definite advantages to all this stuff, and especially with the the archival work I've been doing with restoring old recordings, some of this new AI stuff is incredible of what you can do.

Joey Stuckey 9:02

Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna, that was that's a beautiful segue because um uh I wanted to talk to you about that. You know, I got a chance to um uh I imposed on you and said, Hey, uh I I want to come see the Les Paul tube console. I'm in LA. Um uh can I get 15 minutes? And and then you end up giving me like two hours, which was just so gracious. Um and it was it was amazing. And as a blind person, I mean, you know, uh the that was a pilgrimage for me because Les Paul was one of my you know greatest influences in so many ways, and sort of the forefather of multi-track recording and and you know, all this stuff, and and to to see a console uh like that um you know was just just absolutely mind-blowing. And then then to hear you talk about the process of getting these tapes into shape uh from that less left behind uh is just just stunning. So I my my understanding, and and you can correct me if I'm wrong, essentially the Les Ball Foundation, um, and you're you're sort of the official you know archivist engineer uh for that, um had to restore Les's original gear that this stuff was recorded on so that so that the tapes would become accessible for uh being digitized. Is that is that basically what happened?

Tom Camuso 10:32

Yeah, so basically all of Less's record he kept everything. He had over 30,000 recordings and they were all in the house. So when he passed. Oh, I'm setting my phone here. When he passed, um, all of the tapes were taken out of the house and and brought to the Library of Congress to digitize. And we actually sent a team of our own guys down there, worked a deal with the library just to expedite it and get it done because there was so much to do. So um that was almost a year of of digitizing everything. And then once it was all digitized, then we started our work of sifting through it, figuring out what we had and what what you know what was there that was stuff that we could, you know, either release or stuff that was unreleased. And then in the process, um we found this art this this uh basically this uh about 200 songs worth of songs where they were recorded uh either disc to disc or tape to tape, which was the process less used um in the early days of of overdubbing. And basically he'd record to one either lathe or tape machine, play it back, play along with it while he records to another. So there were about 200 songs with that, we call it a stem tree. And uh that was really what started the ball rolling of there might be something here we can do. And uh that turned into another couple years of of figuring out, and basically the idea was we have these, they're all mono recordings all baked together because he's just playing on top of himself. But we had every uh sort of iteration of the process of a song. So you'd have the first you know, guitar and bass, then the next recording would be the same thing with an extra guitar or an a new or a vocal or two vocals, and it would just keep piling up. So the idea was if we could take all these recordings, line them up, and somehow either phase or source separate the material and make uh a multi-track that never existed because again, this was all done overdubbing on top of of itself. So and that was you know a process of of of cracking the code on how to do it, all with the expectation of being able to remix his his music. Um and basically because the process he was using, this back and forth, his mixes were sometimes 20 to 40 tape generations old when he got to the final overdub. And you hear that in in the mixing. So this was sort of a you know, in the spirit of less and in the spirit of always pushing the technology, can we do this? So that was sort of the birth of the whole studio and and the uh and the idea of restoring all of his gear and and and doing what we're doing out in in Los Angeles.

Joey Stuckey 13:47

So I mean you have you have the octopus, right, which is the eight-track. First multi-track ever. Yeah. And and it and and did you restore it because you did you restore it because you needed it to play back tapes, or you just restored it because you could? Or I mean, how did that? I mean, I I can't imagine that was an easy process.

Tom Camuso 14:04

It wasn't, and we didn't need to. It was just um, again, when Les passed, all the tapes went to the library to be digitized, all of the equipment went to museums, and Les set up the the Les Paul Foundation before he passed, with the goal of basically teaching, you know, future generations that he wasn't just a guitar, that he actually invented all of these processes that we still use to make records, you know, whether it's tape delay or you know, multi-track recording and overdubbing and you know. So um so when we had this idea to try to pull apart the multi-tracks, uh the goal was always to, if we can, you know, make a a new cleaner, you know, version of the mixes, to release them in an archival box of you know, where you'd have the original monos remastered and then these new stereo remixes that we're doing that are all cleaned up, and you had this ability to to uh to rebalance things a bit and and you know, treat things individually and give it a more modern sound and do a stereo mix. Um so that was always the idea. And you know, after Les passed, there really wasn't much the foundation could do because he wasn't making new music, so you could put the stuff up on streaming services, you know. Um, and as far as the educational aspect of the foundation, um you know, we would give out grants and stuff like that. But again, there wasn't much beyond that you could do. Um so the idea with with uh restoring the gear was if we restore the gear, we could mix the box set on his gear, which is uh you know, a cooler story to tell that we've restored everything and we're actually mixing it on you know his tube console, which is the first multi-track console. Um and assemble all the gear. I mean, we've restored the lathe, we've restored the octopus, we've we have a a sound-on-sound machine that we have at the studio that's functional. Um, we're restoring his the his original Wally Jones tube mixer that he did all the first hits with. So we have his guitars there. So it not only could we mix this all this uh the his archive on it, but then it served as a great place to host students and do classes and and have everything in one room where it's tactile and people could come in and and actually use the equipment and and see you know what Les did and how how far we've come and yet how similar the process still is to how Les, you know, did it back in the in the 50s. So it sort of checked all the boxes for the foundation. And um not only are we doing, you know, mostly we're doing education out of there, but um, you know, we're working on his archive, we're bringing in new artists to make new records, and again, and it just using the gear to make these new records to keep Les name out there and alive and have new artists talking about him, and you know, everyone's you know posting stuff from the studio and and you know, it's just sort of all evolved into this larger project, you know, all just sort of to fulfill what he wanted with the foundation. So it was a great opportunity.

Joey Stuckey 17:37

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And and and I'm excited to be uh one of those artists um that's uh pestered you pestered you until I convinced you to let me come in.

Tom Camuso 17:48

Yeah, but we've had a lot of like you know, famous guys come through, and it's a you know, it's a bit of a a press exchange as well, but you are the first, like uh you'll be the first, I think, paying customer to just say, I just want to come and use it.

Joey Stuckey 18:03

Yeah, yeah. I'm excited to I feel honored to do that. And and it's it's really I mean the you know the I I love that you mentioned the word tactile uh when we talked about the the gear and the experience. And um I think you know there's something to you know turning a potentiometer or sliding a fader, or you know, I think I think there's some magic there. Um I I think that you know uh when we're in Pro Tools or whatever, you can move by a tenth of a dB or you can move by a whole DB or whatever, but you know, it's more it's a little bit more precise, you know, mathematical measurement, and whereas, you know, pushing a fader up till you like it is is you know, you you you kind of know where it is db wise. I mean, there's there are markings that kind of tell you oh you're at zero or whatever. But I mean there's something there's something to like just tapping the fader and and you know, I don't really know precisely how much db I just changed, but yeah, it's right now. You know, look there's there's there's something to being able to grab that sort of you know instinctual um place and not having to be uh super precise uh about you know how much we're changing it by. Now, now that being said, uh I am very sensitive to uh decibel change, and uh I pretty much know and can't look at the waveform as a blind man, and I have a sighted assistant um that works for me, you know, sometimes. Um, and um and I'll say, you know, clip gained that 2 dB and and you know, or whatever. And I'm usually right. I mean, I'm usually, you know, I'm usually right on the money of knowing like how much I need to to move something by. But but anyway, there is something to that. I I love I love the uh the the his console was such a fun thing to to feel as a blind person. And uh uh you know, there were knobs instead of faders and uh and all that. And and and you know, it's been a minute. I've I've had a nap since we visited at the studio. Uh but remind me, like how how much EQ and stuff is on that console? I mean, how much how much mixing can you?

Tom Camuso 20:17

I mean, and that's basically sort of the the storyline to all the education we do is the limitation breeds the creativity. And when you come to the studio, it's an eight-channel, three-bus mono console with an eight-track tape machine that only allows you to record three tracks at a time. Right. So now we have Pro Tools. You could, you know, we have a rack of API mic breeds. If you wanted to record an orchestra and make it sound like, you know, a you know, a radio head record, you can do that. Um, but most people come to do the Les Paul thing, and and and you know, and the limitation is part of the experience because you actually have to come with the idea of how your song is actually going to be. You have to have an idea of the part you're actually gonna play, you know, stuff like that. And the EQ also isn't is no exception. I mean, it's it's cool, but it's it's just a a very you know musical sort of you know, not very uh precise surgical kind of EQ.

Joey Stuckey 21:25

Which there's some joy in that.

Tom Camuso 21:26

You know there the console was built by Les and Rain Norma, who um a lot of people would know from the Fairchild compressor. He built the 660. Um and basically at the same time he was building the console. So essentially that console is a Fairchild tube console. You know, it's designed by Les and built by Rain. How cool. Yeah, most of the tubes are the same exact tubes that are in a Fairchild. The way he does the staging on the mic prees are very similar. It's it's a super unique sort of. of sound but as you would imagine it's a super hi-fi you know even though it's the first multi-track console it's um it's incredible and recording straight through the console to Pro Tools you could make you know the most current record and no one would know you're recording on the the the first ever multi-track console um you go to the octopus to the to the a-track then you're gonna time travel a bit you're you're gonna know that you uh you're using vintage gear but uh but the studio it's itself is super flexible you can basically you can record live to the lathe you you can do anything it's all you know patchable and we're doing we we have we have opted uh to to do the less policy uh as with the lathe and with the console um we're gonna track it to Pro Tools instead of tape but um just for just for time purposes really tape machine is a uh huge time suck it's yeah yeah and so we're just because we yeah we get we got a mission uh but we but but we have but we have basically it's it's what I'm trying to do is a you know live and studio record essentially and uh just getting the the the sex appeal and and the the cool vibes off the console and and uh just having that fun and and and the other thing is now I I have to ask uh because I was I didn't not have that piece of the puzzle about the fairchild um can you do can you I mean the not the fair child the pull tech sorry um the can you do the uh pull tech trick on it can you can you can you can you do this we don't have pull text we only we we it's only we we have a fair child stereo 670 but but no poltex and okay so I didn't know if I didn't know if you could do the some of the some of those uh fun fun uh cut and boost at the same time tricks that we used to that we got oh on the console yeah uh yeah I guess you could there is like a uh a shelving kind of thing on it uh you know like a fixed fixed DQ yeah but uh but it's definitely it's a totally different vibe than a pull tech.

Joey Stuckey 24:09

I gotcha I gotcha well it it's it's it really is a fascinating uh place uh to to be and uh you know and and the you played for me um smoke rings um with Mary Ford and uh I learned again you're just sort of a font of knowledge uh I I learned that she was a guitar player I never knew that um you showed me yeah I mean she was a fine guitar player I mean yeah you played me one of her one of her tracks where she was playing rhythm guitar and it was just it was awesome and uh but but I heard that I gotta tell you man what when you played me some of the stuff you've been restoring and and you know mixing and and you know all this stuff uh I was just blown away with the the clarity and the quality of it and I got home and I looked up smoke rings on Spotify to hear the original recording and uh whoa what a difference I mean I mean that recording's pretty muddy in comparison I mean it's uh you know it's it's the stuff that you played me was like pristine you know just awesome and it's so so clean and clear.

Tom Camuso 25:26

Yeah basically what we're doing is like I said we have these back and forth recordings of each each stem and each time he adds something so um we're using um the software made by this company Cedar uh to line everything up uh and even that had to sort of be sort of tinkered with and you have to do it manually because of the process of how less recorded stuff. The software uses the bias line on tape to actually straighten out the the recordings and because less is tape was recording tape to tape there'd be 25 bias lines on everything. Oh my god. So that was a challenge we had to figure out a way to do it manually and then once we've we line up all of the audio where it's you know within like a cycle of being accurate to each tip each each stem we then went and used AI and basically the AI goes in and uh we'll go all right this is a redundant piece of audio I don't need it this is a new thing and it extracts that so that was my question like how you decided how to use the different uh sounds from each sort of print if you will um that sounds that sound basically removes the new thing it gets complicated as you as the the it gets more uh as the recordings get more complex um your your sort of options sort of decrease a bit but it gives you enough of um of some of separation where you can really go in and start compressing and EQing the bass separately from everything else it it does a a pretty amazing job at separating stuff so um so and and because we have it incrementally it it works really well because I'm not fighting everything right off the bat as as I get deeper into the stems you know it becomes more challenging.

Joey Stuckey 27:31

How long a process is this going to be before you're able to release the box set? Like what's the you know what what's the timeline look like because you've been working on this for a number of years.

Tom Camuso 27:41

Yeah I mean it it's definitely slowed down with you know spending years restoring the gear and building the studio and moving it out to LA and so it's you know it's been a a a long process. I think we're hoping in the next year or so to to get it out. Um a lot of it is we have a whole nother team right now that's working just on the songs picking the songs because there's so much oh yeah you know you know his career he we have recordings from when he was 14 up until he was you know in his uh 90s like you know two months before he passed wow so there's so much stuff there's so much unreleased material um so I think I will probably be mixing his stuff until I die to get through all of it. But uh there's gonna be a lot of different releases because there's just so much that when you start putting it into buckets there's you know tons of unreleased stuff there's tons of genre specific stuff or time period stuff or process stuff of you know throughout the years of how he evolved and from overdubbing to multi-tracking. So there's just so much stuff that I think you know we're really trying to figure out the order of how to release it.

Joey Stuckey 29:06

I mean that sounds like a daunting process and yeah and you would have to do multiple box sets I'm assuming because they would probably have to come at a pretty good price point considering you know how many hours are involved and then also how many tunes.

Tom Camuso 29:21

I mean yeah I mean I I think you know it'll be like you know there's definitely there's the capital years and then there you know right so there's so many l different genres and you know so yeah that's what they're they're figuring out and while they're doing that I'm just picking away at at mixing stuff.

Joey Stuckey 29:39

So do you do you get a vote time? Do you get to weigh in on what stuff's released?

Tom Camuso 29:43

Well I you know there's so many people on the foundation who know the music so much better than I do. Um my vote really is more of what is going to be uh what what's going to be a dramatic improvement and what's gonna mix well and and stuff like that is is more where I weigh in where I know this might have been a huge hit but listen to how amazing this song is is absolutely absolutely and and the other thing is I I hope you get to release that smoke rings because oh yeah that man it's good.

Joey Stuckey 30:13

Yeah that'll be that's I mean it it is it is uh it it is I mean I can't you know I can't tell you how good it was it was what a joy it was to sit in front of that console and listen to that I I mean just remarkable clarity I just can't tell you how impressed I am the thing is um the I guess the other you know sort of the other thing you said something to me I thought was profound uh and and I'm I'm paraphrasing so apologies if I have it a little bit wrong but uh I mean you basically said to me hey I'm I'm trying to sort of give you not so much the Tom Camuso mix but but the Les Paul mix. And and you know he's and you said something like you know uh you you may think the vocals were a little hot or something but you know I'm I'm kind of giving you what was intended versus what we might consider appropriate today. Is that is that a fair statement?

Tom Camuso 31:09

Like is that kind of the for sure I mean it the the the intention was never to uh you know I can out mix less or or you know I can make this better. Yeah it's really um and also it falls into sort of what we're doing with the studio. I mean it it really it's a a bookable as you know studio anyone can come rent it um make new records but it's really I would say probably 80% of the time it's education. That's really the focus. I love that and um uh the the whole idea of doing this sort of falls in line with less and you know less his whole life anyone else would have stopped a dozen times and said look what I've done I'm cranking out hit songs I'm having a great life yeah just you know lay lay back and enjoy this he never did he always was like all right did that not doing it again I'm gonna make something better I'm gonna push everything so this is sort of in that spirit of you know how do you bring in students and make them interested and you know they come in immediately they look at the console it looks like you know something from World War I and go I'm not interested and I use you know logic or or or garage band and I make my whatever records by the time they leave and you explain how less invented it the process hasn't changed the same way your Pro Tools works is how the console works they're so much more engaged because they're like oh I can make a record on this and this would be fun to do and I completely understand how this thing works. So it's sort of the same thing with the music it's it's we have this technology now if Les was here he'd be doing it. He would be like all right let's fix all this stuff you know yeah so um I wanted to keep the balances as close to the original so that people who do know the music aren't pulled out of it going oh what is this is this a remake you know I just wanted to make it sound like the originals but without you know 25 uh generations of tape hiss and you know things starting to fall off the tape or distort because of the process.

Joey Stuckey 33:39

So I I admire you so much for so many reasons but one of the things I admire is like I I used to do transfers for people. You know I wouldn't so I wouldn't say I was an archivist but I used to do transfers for people with old reel to reels because I had I had a couple like you know quarter inch machine and half inch machine and uh uh you know cassettes that I do in dats and stuff like that. And and I just got to the point where I was like you know I I just don't want to be the jerk that the tape breaks on. I just don't it's this is too much pressure. This is somebody's precious memory and I just don't want to be the person that like ruins it. It's just I I'm not making enough money to to make this like worth the stress because I take my job really seriously I I I take art very seriously. I think art is like so important and and I won't I won't go into my whole like you know metaphysical uh and and and sort of moral ethical things that I think art is good at doing but I I'm just saying like I take it so seriously that I I'm I'm a sort of a tenderhearted person. So if I were to break a tape I I would be mortified just crushed.

Tom Camuso 34:50

And so how you get in there and handle this I would hate this job because the tapes fall apart oh my god well that's the tape is so old that the splices just pull apart when you're playing so we're constantly fixing them.

Joey Stuckey 35:04

Well that's what I'm saying I admire you for doing it because I am not I don't have the fortitude I just don't I mean uh as I as I've told you you know I don't I don't drink I I I think blind and drunk are bad ideas but I would have to day drink just to get through the day of the stress of going oh my God I may break the Les Paul tape. I mean it just I just I don't know how you do it. I just and and I just realized like you know those guys are like Iron Mountain and you know and all those guys that do like the heavy archivist stuff I'm like man God bless them because I am not Joey does not want this. I just you know but it it's I mean how do you how do you for those of us who have never had to do something with this kind of weight to I mean this is a big deal. I mean this is this is one of the forefathers of modern recording you know one of the greatest guitar players of all time uh super nice guy who was very funny I got to meet him one time uh for you know 30 seconds uh but but you know how how do you how do you handle like the weight of this like what what kind of what kind of steps does it take to manage all these tapes and and keep them functional well luckily all the tapes are at the library and they're protected everything's been digitized I actually came on into the foundation after that process was done so um and we have we have other guys on the foundation who are are really like archivists where that's what they do with baking tapes and and doing all that kind of stuff.

Tom Camuso 36:38

Um so luckily a lot I mean I do handle some of the the tapes here and there that we get and they fall apart and you have to tape them put them back together but at least I always know they've all been digitized already. So well that that is a little bit of a comfort threaded yeah yeah it's still heartbreaking but uh but there is a copy of everything.

Joey Stuckey 36:59

And and and what is the so I mean if people hear you know hear this podcast and they're like hey I'd love for my my students to get a chance to come and experience this I mean what's what's what's the vehicle what's the mechanism to make that happen.

Tom Camuso 37:12

If you just go uh to our website which I believe is let leshpaul dot com or lespaulrecordingstudio.com will get you there as well um there's links you could there's forms to fill out for educators you can email me um all the education stuff we do totally free and we also have the whole studio outfitted with um cameras and um like I said you know being in the room and getting to actually I mean we have a dozen of his guitars there that we let everyone play and his microphones and I mean being in the studio is is a uh you know a once-in-a-lifetime kind of experience but if you can't get to LA the the camera system is pretty extensive we've built out a lot of the models that show you how you know the echo chambers work and um you know how how he did the sound on sound machine it's all we have like you know animated models in the computer plus um cameras in every corner of of the studio that we can you know have a live feed that we just flip between so if you can't get to LA it's still a great um experience to just learn about less um also we offer that free as well so you know just reach out and it's it's pretty simple you know and and and the studio is not like open to the public you have to it's appointment only right I mean you have to make the Yeah I mean you could book the room anyone could book book the room uh but you would you know again you'd go to the website you'd reach out and just you know just say hey I'm looking to do this project these are the dates we confirm the dates and you know and same thing with the education it's it's super easy you'd send me an email and say hey we're looking to do this on this day and if if I'm it's not already booked and I'm there then you can show up you can do it via the web however you whatever the you know the situation works out for you but it's it's super easy and and uh and like I said it's all free.

Joey Stuckey 39:20

Let's let's talk about I I got two more things I want to want to go over with you. Uh the the first one uh is how does the Les Paul Foundation fund all this amazing stuff? Like how can you get involved with helping with that?

Tom Camuso 39:34

Well we take donations for sure and we do like you know when people rent the room that definitely money comes in for that and helps keep it going. Basically the foundation is just funded off what Les had when he passed. Gotcha. So you know um you know we we do a lot of amazing things but like all nonprofits we sort of always are you know running close to that line of just trying to get to zero all the time.

Joey Stuckey 40:03

I understand I understand I you know I have a I have a festival I put on every year uh called Joey Stucky Alive Day and uh it is a um it's a free festival for our community uh it's music you know uh we pay the artists uh and uh it's it's the day I hold it on the day that I what beat the brain timber that was supposed to kill me and uh you know it did take my eyesight my sense of smell so I'm down two uh but but but you know they also said that I wasn't gonna live and then they said if I did I wouldn't walk or talk and Tom I'm sure you know to your chagrin I talk a lot so but uh but anyway but I mean we we hold this free festival and you know I'm not a nonprofit and um and and I for there's several reasons I'm not but I'm just just this guy putting it on and you know we we try to raise sponsors and bankroll it you know about 60% sponsors and the rest I just have to fund myself but I mean I've been in that position where you're like you know man we just we just need to break even we just you know we I mean the foundation still they do a lot outside of the studio as well they do um uh they do a lot of grants and give away a lot of money yeah they um we do every year we give out a Les Paul Spirit award which goes to like you know usually iconic guitar players and nice yeah so that you know the the foundation is constantly involved with lots of stuff um I just sort of get a lot of the the attention because I I've got all the cool stuff out in LA yeah well well that's the other thing I want to share with people you again I mean just a remarkable person I mean you you you have a schedule that is really intense and uh you live you live in New York for two months uh and then you live in LA for two months. Yep back and forth every two months. And and so in New York you're you're running your studio uh and and doing records and then in and then in LA you're you're doing you know the Les Paul um what we'll call the Les Paul experience but you're doing the Les Paul studio. So I mean that is a um that is a really complex sounding schedule. How does that I mean how does that work for you? Because I mean you've got your own studio uh you're making records you know I mean what's what what does that look like when like with your with your career I mean how do you how do you juggle all that and make it work because it it just seems like you know seems it seems like it would be intensely uh um difficult to schedule to see well I mean the Les Paul thing even though technically it's supposed to be six months out of the year is constant even when I'm in New York there's always meetings there's always you know partnership deals and things right you know we're always working on stuff and I'm lining up you know educating educators and classes so it sort of is just always going.

Tom Camuso 43:06

And then and when I'm in LA forget about it it's always crazy it's always busy and then when I get back to New York um I'm always busy doing on top of the the you know the the the Les Paul stuff as well um everyone knows I'm here for two months so it's usually a busy two months when I'm home.

Joey Stuckey 43:28

Get Tom while he's home.

Tom Camuso 43:30

Yeah. Yeah so it it it it has been very busy but you know in the music business we can't complain when we're busy.

Joey Stuckey 43:37

So well no I mean it's uh my my uh mantra at my studio is uh twofold uh Joey is a drama free zone so you gotta be happy or you can't come in uh and uh and if if if being happy and joyful while you're making records is not what you want to do this ain't the place for you uh but but the other place the other thing is you know we we're even when it's a bad day it's A good day because we're in the music business and that's what we want to do. Um, and and so I mean, you I mean, do you see yourself primarily as an engineer? Do you see yourself as a a producer at all? Or I mean what what role do you give yourself? Like what title do you think of yourself when you when you think of your career?

Tom Camuso 44:16

I mean, what do you think? I mean, I've always called myself an engineer because that's just the one thing that everyone uh we gives me credit for on records. Right. Um, but I think every engineer now is a little bit of a producer. You're always, you know, it's not like the old days where there is a producer, an engineer, an assistant, you know, the artist. It's usually the artist is the producer, the engineer is the producer. Right. You know, everyone's sort of got a lot of input into things. Um and you know, with the Les Paul thing, it's become a whole, you know, I've become a uh a professor. So I, you know, I do college courses on recording, and you know, so it it's it's just funny how you just wake up every day and show up, and you know, one day you look and go, oh my god, look at all this crazy stuff we're doing. Um, none of which was in in the plan.

Joey Stuckey 45:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know I I totally get that. I mean, you end up I I got in the studio business because uh I wanted to be an artist, is the reason I picked up the guitar and all that kind of stuff. But I was like, I'm blind and I can't drive myself. So how can I bring people to me without it seeming weird? Oh, I know, I'll have a studio. And uh because they got to come to that anyway. Um so so it made sense. And then, you know, but then what happens is, and and I think you'll appreciate this because you uh at one time were trying to be a rock star. Um, I mean, what happens is you you you start working for other people, which is awesome, but then you're like, oh man, I haven't put out a song of my own for like two years now. What am I what am I doing? You know, I gotta I gotta get back to that. Do you still write songs? Do you still do anything like that?

Tom Camuso 46:00

I spend so much time in the studio. When I go home, I want to hear silence. Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 46:09

Well, you are you my experience is a different. That's it's I'm so interested by you saying that because um I go to the studio and work all day on music and then come home and listen to more music. And I wonder, I think it's because I think it's because I'm not getting any visual input and my brain really craves content. Yeah. Um, my mind is busy, and uh, I don't actually like sleeping. Like I I hate it because I was like, oh my god, I I could be doing something else. And that's the brain tumor survivor mentality, I think. Like, you know, I want to like grab life by the neck and just like get everything I can out of it all the time. And uh I so I I'm a little bit different in that way. I don't like to say I don't really I don't want I don't want to relax.

Tom Camuso 46:53

I'll tell you what, I tell a story of you coming to the studio almost to every class now because I was so blown away. There, there you you know, you came in and you were just sort of you know soaking it all in, and and I stepped out of the room for a minute, and when I came back in, you said, What are these switches on the side of the patch bay for? And they literally are there are eight switches on the on the right side of the patch bay that are the only eight switches we have no idea what they were for.

Joey Stuckey 47:26

Of course I would have to ask that question.

Tom Camuso 47:28

They go to a loom that's cut at the bottom, they make no sense of why they're there. I have a couple ideas of what I thought they might be for, but there's really no way to confirm it. And I was so blown away that I left you in a pretty large room with probably a hundred thousand knobs, and within a minute you found the eight knobs that don't make sense in the room. So that that well, that was gonna be my claim to fame now. That's sort of everyone who comes in asks about them, but it's really easy when you could look at it and go, Yeah, well, that's weird. Why are there eight knobs on the side of the patch bay? Yeah. But I was just blown away that you immediately were like, what the hell are these? What is this though?

Joey Stuckey 48:14

Well, I will say I do one thing I do understand that some of the kids today don't is signal flow. So when you gotta, you know, that's like, you know, you have to think about that. That's that's funny. I I've that's a that's a cool story. I I I wanted to sort of just really circle back to briefly something that you said earlier. And that was that you when you were trying to be a rock star, and we've all done that. Um, I realize now I'm not Gene Simmons or, you know, um, you know, although I've met him, and and interestingly, um uh Gene's an interesting person. And um I will leave it there. But what I will say is that he he was very gracious to me and said to me, He's like, Hey, you're a good singer. And uh and I said, Oh, thanks. He's like, I mean it. I said, I I know you do, I take you at your word. Um, but uh he said, Well, I want you to sing this high note. I said, I can't, Gene. I'm getting over a cold and I'm not gonna hit that. I just that's not, I know my voice, and I'm I'm not, it ain't happening today. And he I have a picture of Gene Simmons with his hands around my throat saying, Sing the note. And he was like trying to choke out the cold or something. I don't know. But he uh he didn't, he was very kind to me and and engaged, but he didn't bother to learn my wife's name. Uh, but she has a very heavy southern accent, so he just started calling her Georgia. Yeah, and so everybody else thought her name was Georgia. So that so anyway, my point though is like I'm not I'm not the big rock star like Gene Simmons or whoever picked your favorite rock star.

Tom Camuso 49:44

Uh but but I mean we all growing up in New York in the 70s, you know, Gene Simmons is our Paul McCartney.

Joey Stuckey 49:50

Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, he has to be. Um, and and and and uh I will say, uh my first um when I went to college the first time, my I had I was going for for two degrees, and one was music and one was marketing, basically. And and Gene Simmons is you know a brilliant marketer. I mean, really smart uh when it comes to understanding his brand and all this stuff.

Tom Camuso 50:15

But anyway, you know what they say if you look in the mirror and say Gene Simmons three times, all the money in your wallet disappears.

Joey Stuckey 50:21

Oh my god, I believe that. That is listen, cautionary tale. Um I'm gonna I'm gonna remember that. Uh you've been full of wisdom today, Tom. I appreciate it. So, so but I mean, what you know, you said uh that when you you went out to LA, got a record deal, said you're gonna come back home to New York, you know, work in a studio, get another record deal, and head back to LA. Um what is it? I mean, because New York to me is uh a thriving you know mecca of music. Uh and LA is is as well, but I mean what what what is it about LA that you wanted to get back to back then? Like what what what what do you think the significance of LA is? And do you think that you need to be in both places? I mean, is that you know well back then I think it was the weather.

Tom Camuso 51:15

And you know, when you're you know teenager and you get a record deal, you you know, the the myth is you just move to LA. I don't even know why, you just do it. Yeah. Um but what I found now is in New York, there definitely is, I think, a bigger music scene as far as musicians. There's more bands. Like I can go out and see five amazing bands that and just by walking around and popping into clubs. Right. So uh where I haven't found that in LA as much, but LA has way more of a music business. Like the the studio scene in LA is so much bigger and and more thriving than New York. New York is, you know, we've gotten rid of all of our old studios, really, outside of like what Berkeley's doing over at Power Station. Power Station, yeah. You know, Electric Lady, it's sort of like a you know, a tourist attraction studio at this point. Um, the only really studio I can think of that in New York that's sort of OG is Sear Sound is still there. Um it's an amazing studio that's still going. Um but LA, tons and tons of studios with incredible history and just preserved and still, you know, great rooms making great records, and people are are renting the rooms and making records there. Where in New York it's just a lot of studios like me. Like I have a you know an 80s series NiV and a warehouse. I've been there for 25 years. I've built the warehouse around the console, and just you keep treating it until it sounds great. Where LA, every room has been there since the 60s. A guy in a lab coat designed it, it's mathematically perfect. Gotcha. It's got the original echo chambers, like history, and there's also a community around the studio scene there. Um, there's tons of parties where every studio owner is there, they're all hanging out, everyone's throwing everyone work, it's a community. I love that. Yeah, New York, not so much. It's you're with me or you're against me. Everyone's a competitor, we're all fighting for the for the few you know records that are getting made in New York. So it's just a different vibe, and that's really why everyone from the foundation is from New York. Huh. And you know, Les was you know from New Jersey. So he started out in Hollywood, though. So when it came time to do this, it just made more sense to do it out there. There's more of um uh a studio culture, there's more of um there's more education because of the film business. There's a lot of schools that you know cross over into the audio end of stuff. So that's really, you know, and we you know, we're at United, which is one of the most historic studios in LA. Yeah. So um Yeah, it was it was really neat to walk to those doors and and yeah, the history lined up really well. Yeah, yeah. Putnam Chambers are there. Uh Bill Putnam and Les were like best friends, both of them, you know, right at the forefront, those two guys and Tom Dowd, like they're all the Mount Rushmore of reporting. So it just made sense. So that's really why we ended up out there.

Joey Stuckey 54:49

Yeah, I was just kind of curious about it because uh, you know, I I don't know why. I don't know if it's yeah, one of the one of the drawbacks to being blind is um I can't read liner notes. And um, and so uh, you know, I'm unaware sometimes of where the studio was, you know, where the record was made or yeah, yeah, who was the engineer. Sometimes, you know, sometimes I find out. Um, but um, but I was yeah, I was just interested in that. And I I'm so jealous that of of your nieve, um, because that's definitely one of my favorite uh favorite sounds. Um with your studio, uh, we'll we'll we'll kind of switch gears and close on this. Um, I mean, you know, you're making records all the time. I know you're doing one for for Blondie right now and uh mixing that. And I mean, what uh what kind of what kind of stuff are you working on in in New York? We've talked about all the stuff you're doing in LA, but what's what's going on in New York with you?

Tom Camuso 55:38

Uh I do a lot of the blondie stuff. I actually didn't I for most of the blondie stuff I'm tracking. I do a lot of the the recording, like a lot of vocals with Debbie, Chris, and that stuff. Um their process of recording is they they move around a lot. They've got a lot of different guys producing and mixing, and it's sort of uh, you know, uh uh a moving kind of uh project all the time. But um but I do a lot, you know, there's just in New York, it's I've been here for so long, there's just a lot of um local artists that I've worked with a bunch. Um uh I do it it's I do I mean I used to do a lot of TV work, which now has become you know telephone advertising more so than television. Gotcha. So it's weird. New York is it's sort of this, you know, it's always new stuff coming in and where you know LA is always less fall. So New York now I I try to I'm I'm I'm trying to pick some different stuff just to to do, you know, just to keep my chops up and do different things. I just did a a great jazz record with a a local uh jazz singer. Um so you know, and over here.

Joey Stuckey 56:59

I was gonna ask you if that if if New York was still a jazz mecca or not.

Tom Camuso 57:04

Yeah, I mean, there's always that stuff is always big here, you know, all different sort of offshoots of jazz. Like I've done a lot of records with um Modesky, Martin, and Wood.

Joey Stuckey 57:14

Oh, one of my favorites.

Tom Camuso 57:16

Yeah, and those guys, you know, every record is a little different.

Joey Stuckey 57:19

Oh, those guys are sick musicians, man. Wow.

Tom Camuso 57:21

Yeah, and they bring in a lot of different people. So there's definitely a lot of that kind of you know, downtown New York, you know, you know, out jazz stuff uh going on all the time, so which is fun.

Joey Stuckey 57:38

Um do you have a preference or or a genre that you prefer making records uh in, or you just like it all?

Tom Camuso 57:46

I mean, I like it all. I mean, I've always sort of done like people have sort of come to me to do the rock record stuff. Right. Um I think because you know, when I started out learning, I was all those years with Lenny. Um, I've done a lot of rock records, you know, with you know, Zeppelin kind of drum sounds and and all that kind of stuff. So and my studio in Brooklyn is sort of a, you know, it's got an old knee, we've got emt plates and compressors and you know, all the stuff that you would find in a a studio that's making rock records and cool hipster jazz records.

Joey Stuckey 58:28

Do you I mean, do you I mean the thing for me, and and I live in a I live in Macon, Georgia. So I'm I'm you know, home of Otis Redding and Little Richard and Almond Brothers were here for a while. And yeah, and and you know, and that and and and the sad thing about this is, and I I don't mean this in any way disrespectful, but uh, and I'm the official music ambassador of my hometown. So um, but but I mean, you know, we're we're still talking about records that were made 70 years ago. Uh and what we're not talking about is records that were made this year. And uh the infrastructure here is really non-existent. I mean, you know, the the there's just not an infrastructure for the music, which is a shame because I can tell you there's some incredible players in this, in this town. I mean, really incredible. And you know, we're an hour south of Atlanta. Um, but what what do you what do you I always like to dig just a little into the music business side of things? Um, and I I count on, I'm really into education, so the podcast usually I'm trying to, you know, share some knowledge that maybe somebody didn't have before. I mean, what what is the struggle like when you're in New York? I mean, with with overhead and you've got all this vintage gear, like, you know, here in Macon, I can't, I can't afford to have that vintage gear because I ain't nobody here to service it. I mean, it's like, you know, that's that's kind of one of the reasons I don't invest in like the stuff that I want to. Um, because you know, I'd love to have some some some classic, like, you know, real LA 2As from back in the day, but you know, who's gonna who's gonna come down and and and service it? So what what is what is it like for you with with the classic NiV console and stuff like that? I mean, is that is that a problem? Or being in New York, do you have easy access to text and you know what I think?

Tom Camuso 1:00:17

I think if you're in New York or LA or even Nashville at this point, I think you kind of are lucky in the sense you can get stuff fixed. Um, that being said, it costs a fortune. Um it does. Yeah, and and I I have to say uh the my Neve console has been pretty bulletproof. I mean, you know, outside of the Neve knob stuff where you know, we just actually did a whole ultrasonic cleaning on everything. But uh outside of, you know, if you keep it maintained, there they're workhorses. So I've been lucky in that sense. But you know, things break and it's it's constant upkeep. But I've been my studio in in Greenpoint I've been at for almost 25 years now. So luckily all the gear has been paid for long ago. Gotcha. I'm locked into a lease that I've had for a while, so I've been kind of lucky with keeping overhead kind of down, but it's still tough. I mean, um, you know, there's definitely months where you you don't make the earbells, you know, and then there's months where you do great. So yeah. You know, that's the recording business.

Joey Stuckey 1:01:31

It is, and that's the thing, that's the thing that I've sort of you know, I that I sort of struggle with. Like, you know, like one of the things I think about is like, okay, if I if I was to get uh an LA2A or something, or um, you know, even even if it's in good shape and I get it repaired, like, you know, what it sounds like at 10 a.m. may not be what it sounds like at 4 p.m. Yeah, always print it.

Tom Camuso 1:01:51

When it sounds good, print it.

Joey Stuckey 1:01:52

Yeah, yeah. And that's that's what that's I always think about stuff like that. I I but I am an analog whore. I mean, that's you know, I I am because I like the vibe is is is a big part of it. But the other big part is accessibility for me, because yeah, the third knob from the left always does the same thing. And it it doesn't matter what screen I'm on, or you know, I and so you know it for me, it's also like a I know this, I know once I know the piece of equipment, I know it. So it's you know, it's it's a it's a you know it's sort of a twofold thing for me. But I really do feel like the classics gear is really important to um to to creating records that have character. Um it sounds like you feel the same way because you've got you got that classic NEVE.

Tom Camuso 1:02:41

Yeah, and nothing sounds like recording through it.

Joey Stuckey 1:02:44

So no, I I mean it's it's I mean it's it's awesome. I mean, I love it. I mean it's it's those, you know, that's that's what I would like to uh have. I I just uh just made a a purchase of the SSL uh console. I'm I'm upgrading my studio console. And I just got the I got the SSL Origin Evo, which is the newest thing from SSL, and it's you know it's all analog and it costs the price of a small house. Um but um but it it's really accessible for me. I mean, you know, uh all the buttons are latching, so you can tell what state the channel's in with you know with the knobs, and it's it's it's great. I needed some, I had to get something new, but I I just you know it's it's a constant struggle to find you know the right the right gear to make the right records. I mean, ultimately it's about the ears of your engineer, really.

Tom Camuso 1:03:27

But yeah, and you know, like I said, you you know, it's like you know, guys used to make great records on NS10s. Oh, I know, I have a pair. I don't know how anyone does it, but it can be done. You know, you you could learn anything. That's exactly right.

Joey Stuckey 1:03:42

You know, just learn your gear and know your gear. I mean, the NS10s are like if the base is thumping, you've gone too far.

Tom Camuso 1:03:48

Yeah. Everyone always says if it sounds good in the NS10s, then you know you got it.

Joey Stuckey 1:03:53

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I I when I had those speakers as a kid, you know, in in I was I mean, they were they were all I had, and they weren't expensive, 400 bucks, something like that. I don't know. Um, and I got the classic ones that don't make any more, and I've kept them out of nostalgia, but I I I can't mix a record on that. I know they're horrible. I can't. I mean, there are people that do. I'm just like, wow.

Tom Camuso 1:04:17

I mean, I mean, I mix on, I can mix on I I've had a pair of the Genelec, what are they, the 1031A? Yeah, that have the crazy mid-range bump. But I've mixed on them so long, I my ears I know where what that mid-range bump is, and I just compensate, you know? Yeah, that's that's the secret. Just know your gear. Uh yeah, now we use the uh at the studio in LA, we're using the ATCs.

Joey Stuckey 1:04:43

I know, and I just unbelievable. Well, and let me just tell you, when we left, I said to my wife, I was like, Oh, I wish I had not heard those. Yeah. Because now I want some.

Tom Camuso 1:04:55

Yeah, because it's you hear everything, it there's no guessing. Oh my God. It's your dog. You got it. You listen and you go, I I know it's gonna sound like this everywhere. I mean, it's ridiculous. So good.

Joey Stuckey 1:05:08

And and I no, I I'm using GitLX as well. And uh and you know, they're they're pretty they're pretty flat. I don't really have to do. I mean, I I came up in the you know, in the 90s, and you know, I I don't really have to do the car test anymore. And you know, not that the clients want to pay for that anyway, but you know, it's like I don't have to do that anymore because I can pretty much tell me now we do the uh airpod test. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or for me, because I am really paranoid about my ears because I cannot lose one more thing. Like I've got a metal hip, I've got a metal shoulder, I can't see, I can't smell, I don't make adrenaline. Like, I cannot have any other issues. So, so with my ears, like I'm scared to put stuff in my ear. I know it's stupid, I know it's not rational, but I I will not put a pod in my ear. I just won't. And it it it's I do over the Over the ear phones. That's it.

Tom Camuso 1:06:01

Like I'm not sticking anything in my ear. But uh I mix sometimes I I'll pop on the open back uh ones. Well what what phones do you use, Tom? What are you what are you doing? I'm using these these ones. Um they're called Hi-Fi Man is the company. And I actually just bought an I I've been using these the one model they have, I think it's called the Sendari or something. Yeah. It's like the lowest model. And I just bought a new pair the other day because mine are just basically disintegrating on my head. And I went, there's a place here in Manhattan called Studio 46, and all they have is high-end headphones. And you make an appointment, you go in with the music you want to hear, and they'll give you like five thousand dollar headphones to listen to. Wow. And I went through their whole because I the ones I've been using are at the bottom end of their their uh their list of uh there's another models, right? And I listened to every one they make, and I thought they all sounded exactly the same. Some of them were just a little louder. So they're like $179, and they sound, I think they sound great. That's awesome. Oh, it's it's back to what we said, like know your gear.

Joey Stuckey 1:07:15

I'm used to them. So what is your overriding? Like, if you if you had to give a piece of advice, uh you know, uh, besides you're crazy to get the music business, but if you had to give a if you had to give a a piece of advice to someone who's you know in school or or or having some kind of learning opportunity, like what what do you think the biggest thing in our industry right now is that you need to be aware of and and be up on?

Tom Camuso 1:07:42

Um I mean there's so much coming at everyone so fast, it's tough. Yeah. Um I always tell everyone, like, especially like I try to always keep up with all of the the new stuff with all the DAWs because you know that's everyone's using the you know, logic or most likely Pro Tools. I mean, I always tell people if you're gonna pick one, if you're just starting, they all basically do the same. But Pro Tools is the language most commonly spoke. Right. So um definitely you'll get more bang for your buck if that's the language you speak. Um and I always try to keep up with all of the new bells and whistles because you know, like I used to spend forever fixing vocals, and I would get tons of people who would only come to me to fix, you know, they'd just come always do their vocals with me because they're like, oh, whatever you do, it always sounds great. And I would spend hours and hours, you know, syllable by syllable, pre-gaining things, so that again, so when I run them through uh an old tube compressor, the compressor does nothing to do but add vibe. Like I I get everything right and fix everything and and you know spend a ton of time, but now you know, you can use like these ARA, you know, dyne assist uh uh plugins that do everything I was doing in 10 seconds. Wow. I'm not even familiar. I'm not familiar with those. I'm yeah, it's like a new, you know, it's one of these new uh plugins that you know there's the ARA ones, they sort of work within the tract, or so it's like another level of uh of of uh you know logic going on. Gotcha. But but it balances out the vocal immediately. So one hand I was like, well, you know, this is saving me, you know, weeks of my life doing but at the same time I'm no longer special because anyone could do it immediately now. Right so I always try to keep up with that stuff because you know, you don't ever want to be the guy that someone goes to and they say, you know, he did this, it sounds good, but it took them all day to do it. Where I go to this other guy and he can do it in three minutes. You know, that kind of stuff I always try to, you know, keep up with, even the stuff that like, you know, like when you get into like the uh uh the warp time stuff and you know, all the just the crazy stuff that that people are using for different things. And you know, whenever I'm seeing someone else work, I'm always trying to go, oh, they did that. I didn't think of doing it that way, or or that's way quicker than the way I do it, or they made a MIDI map of this, or you know, just always know the tools that are in your toolbox because you know, nowadays everyone has the same toolbox, so you kind of want to know how they all work and be able to know what tool to grab the quickest and and keep the sessions moving.

Joey Stuckey 1:10:52

How do you find time to stay up on all that? Because that's that's I mean, that's the trick.

Tom Camuso 1:10:56

Yeah, that's tough. Um I'm just always, you know, when I'm in in the studio, I'll you know, know there's if I know, oh, they've implemented like like now the the new Pro Tools has all these macros built into it, which I haven't gotten into, but I know that that is a gonna be a huge time saver. And you know, there's some you know 17-year-old kid right now who's programmed 5,000 macros and he can do everything I do with two key swipes. So it's on my to-do list. So, like, you know, when I have things to do, I'll go, you know what, I'm not in a crazy rush. I'll do this and you know, probably spend five times as much time trying to figure out this quicker way to do it. But once I I I get it, I'll I'll be able to save time. So I mean, a lot some time for that stuff.

Joey Stuckey 1:11:50

You are you are special um as an engineer uh because of well, one thing is you're an excellent technical communicator. And um, you know, you you really you are you're a great teacher, and I and and and you I can tell that. And uh but but how do you with so I'm gonna just ask you to unpack this one last thing. Like when you talk about, okay, I gotta stay up on the technology, and the trade is I can do this faster, but I'm no longer special, and yet being special in some way has to be sort of mission critical to to you getting a gig, right? So, so how do you what's what's your balancing act there? Because I mean, honestly, like I believe the fact that I can't see makes me someone you want to work with because all I'm doing is listening to your record. I mean you and nothing else. Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, this is this is it. I mean, and that's what that's why I'm saying I can't lose it. You know, so I protect my hearing quite vigorously. Um, so I'm just saying, like, you know, there's that's I mean, I think like, but you know, it's interesting because a lot of people are like, oh, how can you be in the music business? You can't see, you can't see meters, you can't see this, that, and the other. Uh, you know, and and uh that's not untrue. Um, but the fact is, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, uh you consume music with your ear and those work. So, so uh I think the the primary tool is in place. But what I mean, what how do you stay relevant and like, okay, you want to come work with me because, but also, you know, stay on top of all the technology that in some ways is is erasing uniqueness.

Tom Camuso 1:13:26

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it's so much of trying to be special. I just think it's you know, if you always try to do a good job, that always, you know, that always comes through. Work at um you know, people, I've never advertised my studio. It's basically a private studio. I've never, you know, I don't do any of the the you know, before the Les Paul stuff, I wasn't doing any podcasts or any interviews or anything. Right. I survived on the work, you know. If you show up and you're you know, you're passionate about what you're doing and you do a good job, you know, people know they, you know, they they recognize it. And you know, that's why I you know I've always had like you know, I've done Blondie now for seven years or so, and I was with Lenny for you know seven or eight years, and I did five years with David Lee Roth. And oh wow, I did a bunch of years with Dougie Fresh and a couple years with Modesky Martin and Wood. So there's always you know, sort of uh someone like an anchor of someone who's working and doing a lot of work, and they would in, you know, and if you work hard, then they just go, All right, I want this guy around. And then, you know, eventually you do enough records with someone where you go, all right, you know, I think I've explored everything there is to explore here. It's time to do something different, and you know, and then you move on. But um, and that's how it's always been. I've never, you know, had anyone fire me or anything. I just you know, right. You do five records with someone, and then you go, all right, I'm gonna do this record, and you get busy with some something else, and then there's somewhere else, you know, it just sort of naturally happens.

Joey Stuckey 1:15:17

Yeah.

Tom Camuso 1:15:18

Um but and you know, you just always want to keep things interesting and change it, change it up a bit. But I mean, I think at the end of the day, just do the best you can. And you know, my thirst for learning everything is more for just the the ability to, you know, to keep the sessions moving, because at the end of the day, on top of doing a great job, you kind of, you know, people don't want to know the sessions going on. Right. You just want to keep it moving, keep them focused on whatever they're got in their head, and and just stay out of the way and get it recorded with the least amount of waiting around. So, you know, that's really where the thirst for learning the new stuff comes from, is because you don't ever want to be doing the gimme a minute or standing there and you go, hold on, hold on, one sec.

Joey Stuckey 1:16:13

Yeah, yeah.

Tom Camuso 1:16:14

You know, like I've got my stream deck now with all my stuff ready to go. So it's like, you know, new playlist, bam, I hit one button and it's done.

Joey Stuckey 1:16:22

I just found out about Stream Deck uh like two weeks ago. Yeah, they're there, it's great, you know. And and and I'm I'm I'm doing it in my in my upgrade. I I agree with you. I I'm I I I think that the um you're right. I mean, the thirst for knowledge and the and the the the drive to always be your best is a powerful tool. Um, and if it's part of just your natural spirit, like just how your mind and works, I mean, that's people know when you're a genuine, you know, uh artist, uh, for lack of a better word. Because I mean, I think as engineers, I mean, we're artists and technicians all at the same time. And there's there's two very different things that happen. Like what you're talking about is like, you know, you you use this word several times, and I like it because I do too. It's it's vibe. I mean, that's that's art. That's that's something that's harder to define than setting attack speed to threshold to ratio. I mean, that's you know that's you know, there's there's the science too, but there's there's the art side. But I think that's really cool. And I'm with you. I mean, we keep we keep it light, we keep it, we keep it fun, uh we keep it moving. And that's why I have a sighted assistant uh who is a young, a younger person who grew up with a computer in his hand and you know, has really good eyes uh and can and can see, like, you know, he can do things that take me a few seconds, like instantly, like, hey, uh, you know, second beat of chorus two, uh, the bass, guitar, and the kick drum are off each other, line those transient markers up. He can just go boom, because he can just look at it and do it. Whereas I have to listen, drag, listen, drag, listen, drag. So, yeah, so so I think that's true. Well, I I just I think it's just fantastic that you've done so many interesting things. And as I say, uh I don't know if you're aware of this or not. I'll I'll leave you with this compliment. Um, you are a a born teacher, and and there are people that are called to it that are good at it, and there are people that aren't. And you are so good at coming when when my visit with you at Les Paul, I mean, just the way you explained everything and the way that that you you talked and and shared things uh was really a treat. And I am thrilled to be working with you uh this year at the studio coming up in a few months. Um it's we're we're gonna we'll we promise to have tons of bad jokes and some good music.

Tom Camuso 1:18:43

Well, I'm looking forward to it.

Joey Stuckey 1:18:45

So you have been so generous with your time, my friend. I appreciate you so much. Um there's there's a wonderful website with your name on it that people can visit um if they want to, um, if I remember correctly. And uh and so uh, you know, and Les Paul as well, Les Paulrecordingstudio.com. That's right, absolutely. So there's there's tons of stuff, and and uh I uh I'm just so glad to meet another Niav enthusiast. Uh you know, why would you not love it? Um and uh I just I appreciate your time so much today, my friend. Thank you so much. Yeah, well, thanks for having me.