Joey Stuckey 0:00

Welcome to the Stuck on Sound Podcast. I'm your host, Joey Stuckey. And as always, striving to bring you content that is fascinating, educational, uh, maybe even life-changing. Who knows? I might get lucky. With me today is a good friend and a really I don't I cannot say enough good things about uh our guest because uh this this is a true artist in every good sense of the word. It's my friend Eric Alezandrakis, and I'm so happy to have him on the program. Uh let's just let's just uh let's get started. I want I have so many things to ask you, Eric. Thank you for being part of the show.

SPEAKER_04 0:40

What a kind introduction. Thank you for inviting me, my friend.

Joey Stuckey 0:43

You well, uh it's it's it's a pleasure. You know, we have we have some wonderful things in common. And uh, you know, being in the music business is is uh I think it's difficult uh uh you know at the best of times, but it's it's also what feeds and I know you feel the same way. It's what feeds my spirit, it's what makes me feel you know the most human and the most engaged in in the universe. And um, I mean, I know you feel that way too because we share uh some some uh some similar paths that we've taken over the years. I am not two-time Grammy nominated, uh, but like I like your good self. But but I I I know Yeah, well, it could happen. You never know. I might bribe the right person. I don't know, I'm just kidding. Yeah, yeah. Um, but but I mean there, you know, there's there's a um my mom is is hilarious. She's like, You're gonna you're gonna win a Grammy. I was like, Mom, that's highly unlikely. Uh but anyway.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

I don't think so. I don't think so. I think it's it's uh very it's just you know, there's a whole process to that.

Joey Stuckey 1:44

There is a there is a process, and we may talk about that process. We may get some insight. But I want to talk about your I mean, this is the thing. You have been in this business for quite some time, and you know, you started, if I remember correctly, around eight. Um and okay, six. Okay, well, I was close enough.

SPEAKER_04 2:03

Yeah, six was the classical piano. I mean, uh I mean, I I won't interrupt, I'll let you continue.

Joey Stuckey 2:09

Well, no, I was gonna say you you start up that was that's where I was headed. So you you started playing piano at six, and um what I want to know is when I was six, uh you know, uh I I was a very sick child, and uh I was really had to focus on survival until I was about 16. Uh and it was just, you know, it was just keeping your head down and like not dying. And you know, but so I not not that I didn't have things I enjoyed, um, and I certainly became an early Beatles devotee uh uh at that at that time. And I know you're a big Beatles fan. Uh but but what was it that drew you to the piano and made you say, I mean, you know, playing classical music on the piano requires some serious effort. So so what drew it drew you to that and gave you the ability as a six-year-old child, you know, famously six-year-old's attention spans aren't great, uh, to do this to do this work.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

Well I think my parents saw something in me. Yeah. And they put me in classical piano at age six. And um, which I did until about 16. Uh but I was always and you know, growing up, I just uh I would pick things and musically and make music out of strange objects, and and I was, you know, all through elementary and high school, I was uh also kind of doing theater stuff. Oh nice. So I would get like the lead and the plays and and things like that. And then I was in a band, and then I I don't know, you know, that sort of thing. I I've had I've read a lot about why people get into the especially like really highly creative people, because I I can't turn it off, it's on all the time. I make sure to I make sure to listen to a new album I've never heard before every day. Sometimes it's three or four a day. So in the last month I've listened to about like 48 albums that I've never heard before. You know, some of them are remasters, some of them whatever. So I think it's it's it's kind of like I think it's the way of science, there's been scientific studies on this. It's it's really the way you're wired, you know, because people who are on the high echelon of creativity, they react differently to visual and audio stimuli than people who may not have those extra nerve endings in whatever part of the brain it is. So it's it's kind of like asking a gay person, hey, stop being gay.

Joey Stuckey 4:48

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

Yeah, it's a chemical thing, you know? So it's very much that, but also growing up, I was always around uh creative stuff, art museums around the world. My mother was an art history professor and philosophy professor, so we would go see all kinds of interesting architectural buildings, you know, all over Europe and art museums, and that fed into it because I'm also I'm just a very visual writer, you know. Like my endgame is always uh kind of the visual media, and I I you know song titles are written according to how good they look in capital letters, say on a screen, like a film title.

Joey Stuckey 5:31

Yeah, so interesting.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Yeah, so I I uh I'm working on actually two film projects now, but uh so you know it's one of those things I I was built that way um mentally. Um I I do have other interests. I mean, I was always interested in space and um uh film. And I've always said I I feel like a film director caught in a musician's body.

Joey Stuckey 6:01

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Yeah, I love it. So it's just the way I was built, you know, and I mean, music business-wise, I mean, I I started in the music business officially in '94 as an intern at like the hot little label of Miami at the time, which had several major label artists. And then you know, things started growing and uh expanding uh because I I had a I have a master's in music business. So uh, you know, just over the years things started expanding, and then of course I had cancer twice, and and then uh that uh after that I kind of got back on track. But then the music industry basically died in what 2000 when Napster was um was introduced. So uh it you know, it's it now I I don't consider I actually don't consider myself in the music business because I don't because I don't think it exists. I feel like I'm in the Eric business because what the music business kind of people refer to it these days is really three different things. It's the music distribution business, which Spotify is the the the product, the live music business, which is dominated by Heritage Acts and Corporate Acts, which is run basically by Live Nation and AEG, and then there's the music branding business, which is what the major labels are, and they sell spectacle. So none of those sell music, they all sell a distribution method, uh a live show spectacle, and a branded uh widget, you know, in essence. Now, of course, there are other labels and they want to sell albums and they want to sell music, but the drivers of the statistics and whatever is left of the industry are those three kind of corners. So, in a way, it it's good because it opens things up for like people like Angine de Poitrain, which I'm sure you've seen, the uh band from Canada, which has taken the internet by storm, yeah, um, where they could be fully independent and not have to even sign up with a distributor, they just press everything themselves, and you know, obviously they need fulfillment and all that. So uh, you know, so so it's almost like back in the ancient days of Greece, where there were lots of city-states, they all spoke the same language, generally had the same gods, and but had a few different vibes, different designs, or whatever, but they all tied together. But they were all their own kind of thing, you know. Um, so in a way, that's pretty cool. You have these channels where you can punch through uh the the noise if you know strategically if you can. Um but uh but it's also bad because there's too much noise. And now Spotify with all the AI artists that are flooding, and now this new scam of pirates cloning other artists' music and copywriting the cloned AI versions of themselves, and these artists come on Spotify and they're like, I didn't record these three albums, what is this? And then those pirates monetizing off of those those songs that they created as clones and AI songs and copywriting them, and what are you gonna do? You know. So the interesting thing is streaming doesn't have to exist. It does not. The labels could be making 12 times what they're making now if they weren't so afraid of rocking the boat, because that's how AR guys have always been. They're always afraid of rocking the boat, afraid of losing their jobs. When I was a kid in college, I produced the first digitally watermark CD with the inventor of digital watermarks, Scott Moskowitz. And that technology, those patents, are driving every single digital everything on planet Earth and beyond. So that was the means to protect intellectual property value. But industry people, you know, have always been, you know, back in the day anyway, you know, it's always been about like, you know, uh telling the band or the producer, hey man, great mix, but can you raise the vocal 2 dB? And then you know the producer sends it back saying, Yeah, here it is with 2 dB, but he didn't adjust anything. And the AR guy's like, oh man, that's perfect. Now it's a hit.

Joey Stuckey 10:54

You know, or I have been guilty of that trick. I have to confess.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

Well, it's a good trick. You know, Lee Scular had like, I remember I saw some review Lee Sklar had like a knob on his uh base, one of his bases that did nothing. And then you know, producer would say, Hey man, can you adjust the this and that? And he's like, Yeah, sure. How's that? Oh, that's perfect. You know, it's just it's amazing, it's utter nonsense.

Joey Stuckey 11:17

So you have to produce protect the client from themselves.

SPEAKER_04 11:21

Yeah, you have to, you know. So um you know, that's that's how I look at it. You know, there's there's it there's a lot of it's a disaster. Like I feel now with this new this new thing with these pirates cloning people's songs, I think streaming is officially over. I think people in denial, and I don't think they realize it because all they have to do is is input a system within all streaming platforms that that um detects original watermarks from original ingredients used for for AI uh hybrids and automatically zap those off of the platform.

Joey Stuckey 12:07

Well, I have to tell you a secret. Uh I saw you post about this on on your Facebook page. Cool. And that is what reminded me how cool you were. And one of the reasons I reached out from the I was like, wait, I gotta talk to him about this. It's you you you've got a lot of information to unpack that you've just provided. And and I so, you know, everybody says, and I I really want your response on this. And I mean you've kind of given it a little bit already, but I want to I want to go deeper. Uh, everybody says the utility model of digital content, you know, the the streaming, it's it's just like it's here to stay, it's never gonna go because the corporations, you know, know they gotcha. And you know, they they they they are making a lot of money doing this. But but you did say on your Facebook page, you know, hey, this the death of streaming is here. Um I uh just unpack that a little bit more for me because as a lot of people that listen to this show are Uber nerds and and and are into business and are looking for answers. I I just what what do you think the the the death nail will be? When will we realize that it's dead and what what are we gonna do uh you know after or in place of it?

SPEAKER_04 13:21

So you take three or four of the top earners that are on streaming, Taylor Swift, BTS, all that stuff. If they take down their content, it'll kill Spotify. Or if they re-upload their content with a voiceover, kind of like on radio, so say Taylor Swift has a song and the song starts playing, says, Hi, I'm Taylor Swift. This is my new song I Love Kitties, and get it at Taylorswift.com and then her vocal comes in, you know, like radio, and then or at the end, as it's fading out, hi, it's Taylor Swift. I hope you like my song I Love Kitties, brought to you by Maybelline, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:00

So if she re-uploads every song of hers with something like that on there, um, her being considered the the biggest selling artist of today, and oh yeah, and BTS or whoever else kind of in the same place.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

Yeah, because those, you know, CD sales went up a few years ago, and the industry, you know, the industry, quote unquote industry writers are like, oh, CD sales have gone up, there's a resurgence. Like, no, like Tao Swift and BTS released four different versions uh with CDs and four different covers. So they're right, though those um factions are driving the statistics. So if they do something like that and there's something new waiting in the wings that has more like an Amazon kind of model where you have to pay, it's not sustainable to have everything free, it's absurd. Of course. Uh it it would kill Spotify and it would kill all streaming overnight. So, my personal opinion is that artists should be apps, and there should be an app store and you download an artist app and you get some freebies, you have access to merch, but you want the new album, you gotta pay for it. Ten bucks. Who who can't afford 10 bucks? People spend eight bucks on a coffee drink. That's true, you know, and you spend 10 bucks on an album, it could change your life, could inspire you, you know, and so and then they all have a common music player uh where you can make a playlist out of the stuff that you download within the this kind of music app store, you know, kind of like what Apple does. So you download something, and then you could make playlists within iTunes and your iPhone and things like that. That will, you know, because it had there has to be a payment system for it. And uh, you know, you have to pay for movies on Amazon. It's just it's ridiculous. It's it's a joke. I just don't think uh I it can't last. It won't, because now it's being taken over by all these kind of digital things, and as long as something is digital, uh there will always be a workaround. Piracy is dead because if they use the the digital watermark properly, they can create apps that zap uh on uh things without permission that are being sold or synced or whatever. YouTube is full of that stuff, but they allow it to exist. They're like, well, we'll be making something, you know. Well, okay, a few pennies here, a few pennies there, and it's great that you can find stuff you've never seen and all that stuff, but it's lowered the the value of intellectual property, and people are always complaining, I'm not getting paid, we're not getting paid. No, you're getting paid. You're getting paid the value that has been set. So the the problem is not getting paid, the problem is the value has to be, there has to be a realistic value set for all that stuff, not being paid and they're doing all this advocac advocacy, and we're not getting paid. I mean, sure, like in the digital age uh certain payments and things are not being accounted for properly, and but that's that's a software thing, you know. So uh yeah, I I don't think you need streaming, you know, just because that's the the standard, I don't think you need streaming. You know, I I'm not even on Spotify anymore. I left it two years ago. I have my own Apple account and I upload stuff and it's there in hours. And when I had, you know, the second nomination was Silver Moon. I remember checking into the hotel downtown, and uh the the track on streaming, it had a lot of streams, but what it had made in streaming was like on Spotify was like 30 bucks. So when I checked into the hotel for the Grammys, uh parking per day was 40 bucks a day. I'm like, this is so stupid. You know, this is just absurd. And and I'm insulting. Well, it's insulting, and but also I the numbers thing. I I don't want people to know how many times it was streamed or how many times people, you know, who how many are following it per day, because people go on Fiverr and they'll pay 30 bucks, 10 bucks to some bot to inflate the numbers. Right. And and it's it's bogus, you know. So you see people within our circle who don't have a hit on the radio, don't have a song in an ad, don't have a song in a film, don't have a song in TV, and aren't touring, and suddenly somehow they have 80,000 Instagram followers and 60,000 followers on Spotify. And they they think that they're able to fool the people who sign the checks into thinking there's value there, but they know better because they're like, well, who the fuck is this person? So like oh sorry, sorry for the F-word, but oh, that's fine. Uh you know, uh, but uh it's it's absolute nonsense. And then you look at their posts, and all of their posts have 1500 likes, 1498 likes, 1502 likes, uh 15 uh 53 likes, and when you have that consistent uh amount of impressions on posts, say on Instagram, with 20 comments or whatever, it's obviously a bot because nothing's that consistent. If you have that many likes, you should have at least a hundred comments.

Joey Stuckey 19:31

So really good point.

SPEAKER_04 19:33

Yeah, it's all completely bogus. And then, you know, even people in our circle who've won and who've been nominated, you know, they they've inflated their numbers, they run around trying to look like they're in demand, they're not in demand, nobody's paying them, you know. This so they keep pandering to people within the kind of voting contingent circle. Uh, but but like if if you're a winner and you're being or a nominee and you're being paid to do stuff, why are you constantly pandering to your familiar circle? Why not go after big people and constantly be consistent with big people? You know, it's one it's one thing to you know to network and try to push your stuff for support. Sure. But I can spot a fake a mile away, you know, and it's yeah, we we both know a few.

Joey Stuckey 20:24

We both we both know a few. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:27

I mean, yeah.

Joey Stuckey 20:28

There's some guys that you shake hands, got to count your fingers after you're done. It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 20:32

And they're trying to always find shortcuts, and they don't understand. Say it's like, no, you don't understand. You have to do the work. You have to get out there and do that. You can't just suddenly appear out of nowhere because you have deep pockets. And you know, sometimes it works, they get awarded and or they get nominated, but nobody is hiring them. Absolutely nobody.

Joey Stuckey 20:53

You know, that's really that is that's that's a that's a great point because I I am always saying uh everybody likes the idea of being in the music business, but what they don't like is all the work that goes into making it actually fruitful, not only from a financial perspective, but from a artistic perspective where you're doing something that's you know compelling and actually worth listening to.

SPEAKER_04 21:16

Well, they they they're trying to compete with something that's you can't compete with. So when they say, you know, oh, I'm in the music business, uh you know, you're not in the music business, the music business is is corporations. Right. You know, so they're trying to compete with Harry Styles. You can't compete with Harry Styles. There's like $10 million behind him just for his addresses. You know, so so like you know, you have to kind of look at it like, what is my value? What is it that I can do? How do I keep moving forward and just do your own thing? You can't think about any of that stuff because there are a lot of independent people who have no accolades whatsoever, and they do really, really well. And they sell merch and you sell one CD or one uh t shirt or a t shirt and a C D. You know, that's more than the streaming of a Grammy nominated song the first year it was nominated. So why, you know now, if you're on the road all year round, it it does make sense to be on streaming because that could be a few thousand a month. Sure. But but it still devalues you, and I'd rather not be part of that phony game and just do it my own way because I'm not interested in passive listeners. And and sure, there's something to say if somebody hears a song enough times, it suddenly comes up in their playlist, and they're not that big of a fan or kind of heard of you, and they've heard something, they put it in there, and then they hear it a few times, maybe they'll become a fan. I you know, I'm just not interested in that. I'm more interested in people who are interested in me, and like, you know, it's like the old days when I remember a new Yes album came out and it had bonus tracks. And and and granted, what I'm about to say, you know, the the instant gratification and access has of course has completely changed, but it it does come down to this. So you know, a new yes album came out, had two bonus tracks. The only store that had it was the specs music in downtown Miami. So to get there, I had to get on the train, go downtown, took 35 minutes, whatever, then get on another shuttle to go a few blocks, and then walk another few blocks to the store to pick it up because they held it for me. And then I had to backtrack the same way to get home. Uh and that's what I'm after. So, like, for example, if somebody hears me and I'm not on Spotify and they're like, oh, he's not on Spotify, I'm not really interested. I don't care. Because if if you hear something about me and you're interested, you'll you'll make it a point to find me wherever I am. So that's what I'm after because that's that's the loyalty. That's where the loyalty and and the true uh interest comes from when people try hard to find you. I just don't believe in this easy access thing. You know, I I mean there there is there are there are pluses to it because people can find you instantly, but there's so much content that everybody gets lost, unless it's something with a huge budget and it's everywhere. You know, you're you go to the bathroom and target and in the urinal and there's Taylor Swift's new album, you know, or or you're in the serial aisle and there's Taylor Swift's new album. You know, I I just it I don't care. I really don't care. I'm only interested in people who seek me out and you know are loyal. The loyalty comes from that. I just don't care about passive listeners. It doesn't matter.

Joey Stuckey 24:57

I I I love this because I I really I mean I think there's something profound here because one of the things I've kind of said, you know, to students or whatever, and and you know, uh I work, I'm a governor with a group recording academy. Um I take on mentors or mentees, I should say. Uh and we just, you know, we just try I try to help it if any way that I can um to to give them any kind of you know any kind of uh advantage. Uh but one of the things that I've sort of said and sort of felt that you have encapsulated beautifully uh here is is that that the value uh of the music, you know, it's it's just become so disposable, like the way people are using it. It's disposable, background noise kind of stuff. You know, the the when I was a kid, and and you and I are roughly the same age, uh, I think, and um, when I was a kid in the 80s, uh you know, we we saved up our allowance and bought rec and bought records. And then when we then we would get together, a group of us, and I had the best stereo, so everybody would come to my house. So we would get together and play these records like all of them. We they would, you know, everybody brought their rec their new record and we'd sit down and listen. And if something got us excited, we may we may list the whole thing again. Yeah, totally. That that is the experience that you're talking about, really. I mean, you're talking about that experience that's transformative, that where the music is a part of someone's life, um, and and not just this disposable kind of you know thing. Um and that and that's I think you're right. I I really do feel like you here here in the United States in particular, I feel like music has become you know less valued. Uh in in Europe, I feel like um it's it's still a little bit it's different, yeah. It's a little bit better. I mean, the the like the the gigs, like when I'm in London um doing one of my lectures at the college, uh that's what I call the anchor gig. Uh, and I go and and they they pay me enough that I'm able to afford to come over and you know stay in a nice hotel and you know have a little bit of pocket change, and then I will book um other little shows and stuff around it, just me and the acoustic guitar, because that's logistically like the best. And you know, the the thing about Europe is they they have places that are, for lack of a better word, listening rooms where people come to hear new music that they haven't heard before, where they they come specifically to hear original music. They're not there to drink, they're not there to to pick up a date. They actually are there for that. Now they pay terribly. Uh, and and you know, and they only hold about 70 to 100 people, but but but they are there for the artist. They want to meet you, they want to talk to you, they want to, they want to know more about you. And I I think that's really great. And that's the same thing here in the States, like where the only place I've really found that kind of connection uh is like these house concerts, where you know, you can go pick up a you can sell a lot of merch and and and and sell a lot of you know, they they pay you to play, they pay you for your merch, they they buy you a drink, they you know, and it's it's this whole real experience where they are truly getting something from you and giving something back. Um, and I I I like that a lot. I think, and that that's you've encapsulated beautifully that all my thoughts in that, you know, in what you've said. And I think it's just a question of you know being dedicated to being who you are and uh and and and just sticking with that. I I had I mean, I'm like you, I mean, I had a girlfriend once who her best friend came up to me and said, uh, I don't like your music. I was okay. She's like, that that doesn't bother you. It's like, I don't care what you think. Yeah, it's like I mean, some people like it and some people won't. I'm you know, I'm okay with that. I'm not for everybody.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

To think that someone would come up to you and say, like, uh like why did you feel you had to inform me? You know, the thing about Europe too is that there's so many cultures that are close by. Yeah, you know, uh uh so people uh get exposed to a lot within a short uh distance. So you know, architecturally, historically, artistically, you know, all that stuff. So their ears are a lot more fine-tuned than uh in America overall, because of the distances in America. You know, uh distances are crazy. Well, we're also disposable society, you know, Starbucks, the the the the mall uh food court, the you know uh just the you know that all those kind of fast food inventions. I always I always kind of think of it as like Vegas or Disney World, where you go to Vegas and it's like there's the fake Eiffel Tower, and then a pizza cost slice costs eighteen dollars. Like, why the hell would anyone go there? I hate Las Vegas.

Joey Stuckey 30:08

You know, to be honest, I do too because I don't drink and I don't gamble, and uh you know, I just uh I'm you can spend the same money and go to Paris for 10 days, you know, and see the real life.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

Yeah, totally. But but also like in Japan, for example, they have a thriving CD rental business. Really?

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

Yeah, so they're a very pure society, and they also sell uh albums on on quarter-inch tapes for like $100. Yeah, really high-end stuff. But but yeah, they have a thriving CD rental business, you know.

Joey Stuckey 30:43

Now do you do you tour much, Eric? Are you I'm I've I've never I've never known you to tour, but do you tour?

SPEAKER_04 30:48

I mean, you know, I haven't heard about any touring, but do you do you like to play live or I love to play live, I haven't done it in a long time, mainly because I I didn't want to be away from my kid with his upbringing. Right. So now that he's in college, I I've actually been uh looking into uh some dates and some tours and things. Well, are you gonna put a band together or are you gonna do like play with tracks or what's your uh I don't want to play with tracks, but you know, when I first started gigging solo, I was it was just me and a bunch of pedals. Right. And um I'll probably mix it up. I'd I'd like to have uh some players with me to just do it properly. It just depends on where it is, what they're paying, and what the tour is and what the this is. Yeah, I've been talking to some promoters in Greece for some possible shows there and and and in Canada. And so yeah, it's little by little. I've just had a shoulder injury the last six months and it Oh man. Yeah, it's excruciating to just like even pick up a guitar. So it's that is not good.

Joey Stuckey 31:49

You can't, you can't, you you gotta you gotta play that guitar, man. You can't, you can't, you gotta, you gotta get I when I had my shoulder surgery uh in 2018, I uh I I held all I had you know, the studio, as you know, books up months in advance. And uh I had commitments, and they're like, you need to have this shoulder replaced, and I was in a terrible amount of pain, and I couldn't raise my arm above my head, but I could still play my guitar. But I had to get people to take the guitar on and off me. And uh but anyway, when my shoulder was uh when I had shoulder surgery, that arm was like stuck to my side and I couldn't move it for six weeks, and I was so miserable.

SPEAKER_04 32:27

Oh, it's totally miserable. Like literally, like for really creative people, you know, creating is part of mental health.

Joey Stuckey 32:36

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

And you know, if I had to take a desk job tomorrow at I'd age 10 years in a month, and I'd probably shrivel up and die. But like it's it's part of our if if I if a day goes by and I don't do something creative, I feel like the whole day is wasted, even if it's even if it's just taking a photograph.

Joey Stuckey 32:55

Yeah, me too. Well, you know, I I'm not obviously me, I'm not the guy to take the photographs, but the uh sure you are.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

I'll I will say that'd be an amazing exhibit. I'd love to see that.

Joey Stuckey 33:03

Okay, hold on, wait, wait. We've got this on tape. You have now volunteered to create a Joey Stucky photo exhibit. Yeah, well I know that's I'm gonna hold you to that. I'm gonna remember remember, I know your wife.

SPEAKER_04 33:16

So you should you should take you should get a Polaroid and just guide your interest in shooting stuff by what you hear.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

I like it.

SPEAKER_04 33:28

And then and I think it'll be interesting because you're shooting with your ears, not with your eyes. That's for sure. And uh I love Polaroids.

Joey Stuckey 33:37

Oh well, you're the thing is you are such you're like one of the few people I know that I consider, I mean, a dyed-in-the-wall, like true artiste. Oh, next one. That's what I like to hear. Well, you I mean you and you do so many different things. I want to talk about this. This is this I have always admired. You have set yourself different um, I won't say limitations, but different parameters sometimes when you create. And you know, I remember I forget which record this was. I think it was the first Grammy nominated record. I might be wrong about that, but you you did it on like a 16-track or an eight-track. Four track. Okay, so so there you go. So you that I borrowed. Yeah, and you had like these limitations, and you know Well, I was undergoing chemotherapy too. Right. Well, we're gonna talk about that too. But I mean you but you did such amazing work with with so little. Um I like that because I think that one of the one of my talks is how to avoid sound blindness and return to critical listening. Uh it's a big floofy title, but what it what it really interesting. What well what it really preaches is this you don't you should never approach our craft thinking you have to do X or it's wrong.

SPEAKER_04 34:58

Right.

Joey Stuckey 34:59

And and what I'm saying is nowadays everybody's like, oh, I have to time a line, oh, I have to phase a line, oh, I have to pitch correct. Do you? No. I mean it's like it's like I mean It's about ideas. Yeah. It may maybe you need to do those things, but before you make that decision, you should listen to what you got. I mean, and it's it's people are not doing that anymore. And uh but let's oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 35:22

Well, I was gonna say is it's funny, those those four-track recordings. Uh I mean the first uh solo album was done while the tumor was growing and I had pains, I didn't know what it is. And then this what it was, and then the second was done during the exact six-month period of my first chemotherapy treatment, and I had no job, I had no insurance, I had no gear, I was borrowing stuff, I was smashing stuff, banging on pots and pans, washing machines, making them sound like timpanies with one SM57.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

I've been there.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

Yeah, and um and uh I've I love the idea of making the most of what you have.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 36:04

So I've tried to kind of keep that thread because if you have too many choices, you get kind of lazy.

Joey Stuckey 36:11

Uh or there can also be choice paralysis, like two.

SPEAKER_04 36:14

Choice paralysis, yeah.

Joey Stuckey 36:15

I mean you're like, oh my god, I have so many choices. What do I you know, how do I get on dead center?

SPEAKER_04 36:20

Yeah, I don't I don't have like I use Logic, so I haven't bought any plugins, I just use the plugins Logic has. Yeah. And then I handmake pretty much everything else and play and automation curves and stuff like that. Yeah, I don't I learned on an MS 16 back when I was 16, 16 track, you know, where we were splicing tape and stuff.

Joey Stuckey 36:43

So I've done it.

SPEAKER_04 36:44

Uh yeah, it's it scares the hell out of me.

Joey Stuckey 36:46

But if you if you want to see, this is where I learned to cuss is as a blind man cutting tape with a razor blade.

SPEAKER_04 36:53

Yeah, I I was never so brave. I remember being in a session in the mid-90s with Rob Freeman, who produced the um first Gogo's and the first and second blondie and the first Ramones. He was an engineer and Ace Freely's first album. And it was it was like a it was a solo singer-songwriter, and he's splicing uh 24-track tape and oh dear god like at lightning speed, and there's like all this tape on the floor, and I'm just like looking at it with like PTSD. I'm like, I I I you seriously have to be super brave to be able to do something like that.

Joey Stuckey 37:32

I do like control Z, I must confess. Yes. I do, I do like that.

SPEAKER_04 37:36

Control Z is great.

Joey Stuckey 37:37

I well, but but let's talk. I want to talk about this because I'm a brain tumor survivor, you're a cancer survivor, and I think we have uh a similar uh thing. One thing you said just a minute ago is so me, is that if I haven't done something creative, I'm I'm very restless about that. I'm very frustrated by that, and I feel like I've wasted my time. Frankly, I don't like sleeping. I mean, I I I think it's a waste of time. Uh but I but I have to. I have to, but I don't want to.

SPEAKER_04 38:07

I wonder if that's the cancer thing.

Joey Stuckey 38:10

I think so. I think it's I think it's because you and I have a a very firm understanding that uh our time is limited, and uh, you know, uh and tomorrow is promised to no one. And it's you know, there's a great line in the in the Hamilton musical, uh, which is why are you always writing like you're running out of time? And I don't feel depressed about that. I just feel aware that you know I have things I want to do, and uh I would rather be about doing those things than not.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 38:44

And I I wondered, well, I was just wondering, like you, you know, your mind, I I think the art too for you and I, uh, and you you correct me if I'm wrong here. I don't want to, I don't want to project onto you, but I think that the the art for us, you know, for me it's it's spiritual nourishment. It's it's a compulsion and an obsession. I think it's a healthy one, but it is you know the great motivator for me to get out of bed even when I don't feel like it. I mean, it's you know, I mean, it is do you find I mean, do you feel that same way?

SPEAKER_04 39:15

Do you feel you know I think that's part of it. Also, I grew up around a lot of like Nobel Prize winning physicists, and uh my godfather was Einstein's neighbor and colleague at Princeton, and my dad's mentor, and he lived with us for nine years and was like a grandfather. And I used to have to give up my room to Nobel Prize physicists, you know, physicists uh uh to sleep, you know.

Joey Stuckey 39:44

So you felt like you were slouching if you didn't do something.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

Um I don't no, I didn't feel slouching. It's just I was very inspired. Like I I really wanted to, I've always wanted to do big great things that stand the test of time. Right. Um like this this World War II DNA thing.

Joey Stuckey 40:04

This is very interesting. Yeah, tell us about that. This is this is awesome.

SPEAKER_04 40:07

So around 2018 I had this idea to go into the the German archives and try to find information on 18 villagers who were executed after the Battle of Crete in my father's village. And one of them was my great-grandfather, one of another one was my grandfather, and then two uncles. And there was like a 15-year-old, and you know, it was uh it was a variety. So it was it was repercussions, you know, to put fear, they were doing it all over Crete because they resisted so hard. Hitler thought he could take the island in like a matter of hours, and it took them like almost two weeks. Wow. And they got slaughtered. They really got slaughtered because the the Cretans, you know, they you you don't mess with their land, you know. They and they're they're very fanatical and very uh, you know, the Turks had to deal with them and the the Nazis and the Venetians and all so there's a long history uh of that. Very, very protective and very proud of their place as they should be. Yeah. Uh so I just had this idea, and I I, you know, I thought, you know, it'd be cool to like get all this information. Maybe there's photographs, maybe there's records, and see who were the commanders and who gave the orders and who were the guys who pulled the triggers. And I was talking to my dad about I said, you know, this I'm working on this thing, and you know, it would be cool. Maybe it could be a documentary, and maybe there could be a DNA analysis on the bones, and as part of the documentary, matching the the DN the bones with the existing family members, surviving family members. So I asked him, because he was one of the main founders, uh co-founders of the University of Crete. And I said to him, Do you think there's somebody at the university you could maybe kind of do the analysis? He's like, Oh yeah, maybe, whatever. I told him, and I, you know, I I I don't think he thought it would be an easy thing, but I was to me, everything is easy until it's not, you know. So I so I'm like, well, this this would be a great cause. Like somebody should do it for free, you know. So um so some months go by, maybe almost a year, eight months, or something, and he calls me up, he's like, It's happening. I'm like, what's happening? He's like, gonna do the DNA analysis of the bones. I'm like, really? So he he basically spearheaded that, he funded it, and um the interesting thing is the DNA analysis was going to be done at the university he helped start, and they're doing the analysis of our family's bones at the university that he helped start. And you know, he grew up without a father, they were poor, everybody was a farmer, and then he ended up at Princeton graduate school, and uh and yet the analysis on his father's bones, grandfather's bone and uncles was being done at the university that he helped. Uh you know, it's an interesting circle.

Joey Stuckey 43:17

It is a circle that's very cool.

SPEAKER_04 43:19

Yeah, so uh the reveal was I think two years ago, it was a big ceremony, and politicians and military and all this stuff is really touching. It was at the execution site and um the news in Greece went completely crazy. They called it the most important thing to happen to Greece in 50 years, uh, which I would have thought getting out of debt was was the most important thing. But I guess uh, you know, we'll take it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there was other worldwide press, and now it's moving into a different phase, uh uh a a new analysis of certain things which I'm not supposed to talk about yet. Gotcha. But uh you know that that's the that's the kind of thing that uh you know makes a difference and would make people think and is something for the ages, especially today, because history is repeating itself. It's just in a different form. Right. And to be able to do something like that that inspires people, you know, I l uh that makes me feel good, you know. But it's like with a digital watermark. I mean, that thing is everywhere. We're using it right now. Yeah. You know, so I I'm really interested in doing things that and musically as well. Musically, it's you know, it's a little difficult at times because it requires you know, to penetrate through the masses, it requires massive budgets, you know. Sure. What Universal spends and all these people spend. So I I mean, you know, that's part of it, but but I'm really interested in things like that that really make a difference. Like Shatner, he you know, he's done this this um horse charity thing for over 30 years, and he's raised a fortune for children and veterans and and um uh organizations that that help people deal with PTSD th with the use of horses. And uh yeah, I'm I'm interested in things that make things better, you know, whether it's art or just initiatives, you know.

Joey Stuckey 45:27

Yeah, and and you've been you've been part of that, uh, the the Shatner charity, and I think donated some auction items and some various things for a long time.

SPEAKER_04 45:36

Yeah, I've been donating for years, and you know, actually I'm supposed to send him his annual every year for his birthday. I send him some of our olive oil that we grow in Crete.

Joey Stuckey 45:44

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_04 45:45

Yeah, so he he digs it. I can't take uh credit for his uh immortality, but I'm not gonna deny. I don't know. I'm not gonna deny that it probably can contributes to it.

Joey Stuckey 45:58

Oh, that's I mean, I think I think from now on you should you should uh you know, as for for the uh Uber fan uh bundle, when you get the CD in the t-shirt, you get the olive oil. That's the I have thought of that. As used by the uh remarkably long live William Shaq.

SPEAKER_04 46:13

Yeah, I should put his face on it. You should. He'd love that.

Joey Stuckey 46:17

Yeah, he's he's amazing. He's amazing. Really, you know, I love you know, my dad's 87 and works all the hours of the day, and and I love seeing that in people. And um you know, because I I wanna I want to do that too. And I I just I you know I want to work till I'm till I just drop. I'm me too. Retirement?

SPEAKER_04 46:34

Like how do you retire from yourself? Like that's what's it.

Joey Stuckey 46:37

Uh you said something early that I want to backtrack to because you said, you know, I I love this idea of you being a brand, which which is that happens. I mean, that should happen for any artist, they should understand their their own brand. But uh I love what you said about you being an app and people downloading that app and uh being able to interface with you in a profound way. Uh and and you know, I I love that. And I want to know, like, from you know, from a content perspective, like how much how much uh pressure do you put on yourself uh to to make new art? I mean, do you wait until you're inspired, or do you sit down and go, okay, I gotta get some work done today? Or what's your what is your process? Because you've always everything I've heard of yours has always been uh something you could tell there's a lot of work put into and something that was interesting. And I know that I know that you're I know that you are like me in the sense that you know we we certainly we we we do things that interest us. I mean, I'll you know, I'll play a blues song, but I'll put in jazz chords and and you know because that entertains me. Like you know, you know that's cool. So so I mean, yeah, so I mean I I'll have songs that are you know somewhat you know, they're they're somewhat if you if you were to analyze them, they're somewhat avant-garde, but they don't sound that way because I've got good voice leading. You know, they don't they don't sound jarring unless I want them to. Uh they don't sound particularly jarring or or you know, but I I'm a big fan of dissonance because I think that's what moves the vehicle. I mean, I think, you know, I think that's I think that's the major transportation artery of art musically is you know the dissonance. So uh but anyway, tell I just wonder how much like your process, like how how do you are you always inspired? Do you or do you ever sit down, hey, I mean, I got like a song written today, or what do you what do you how do you do all that? I mean, because you've put out some really compelling stuff and and you've put out you know a pretty good amount of content. So you what's what's the what's the process for you?

SPEAKER_04 48:45

So I I constantly feel the pressure. I I'm backlogged 14 albums. Oh, I I believe it. Yeah, I mean, I have an album with Dolores Ariardan. We were very close friends, you know, that's sitting on the shelf. I have tracks with guys from The Cure and The Smiths and um Duran Duran. Those are sitting there. I have um I have 20 unreleased tracks with Sean Malkovich, which has people like Steve Howe from Yes and uh Gary from NXS and Shooter Jennings and Oh interesting. Yeah, and then I also have you know various solo records. Uh I mean I found I found a few months ago, I found a new age album I recorded in the 90s that I completely forgot about. Uh and I'm just like, holy crap. You know, I it's just a constant the problem is like I'll sit down to like finish something and then three more ideas come.

Joey Stuckey 49:46

Right. So um an embarrassment of riches in that in that sense, yeah. It's horrible.

unknown 49:51

You know.

SPEAKER_04 49:53

No, I I, you know, one thing I'm trying to stick to now since the beginning of this year, I have so many demos, demo ideas that I feel like I need to at least get those in demo form. Right. So that something happens to me, or uh also to keep me from writing new stuff, you know, to to get it all in demo form and see what I can monetize off of it. So you know, you know how it is. I mean, you could see a bird and uh some idea come from it, or you hear a phrase. I mean, I remember listening to um what was that band from the 80s, their their first record. I forget, I forget who it is. And I was listening to their um to their album, and some song came on, and there was a lyric that said unfinished business. And that those two words together just kind of hit me like a John Hughes album. Yeah. And so I was on a walk and I heard that, and by the time I was off the walk, I had the whole song in my head, and I got to the house and recorded. It sounds like the outfield meets Duran Duran. You know, I didn't know. Nice!

Joey Stuckey 51:07

Both excellent bands, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:09

Yeah, and and and I found the first song that I had written when I was like it was a struct the first really structured song that I'd written. I was 17, and uh the idea was to give it to somebody. And it got lost over the years, and I you know, ten years later, I did something to it a few years later, and then and then it got lost. So it was lost for like decades, and I remember finding it, and I'm like, wow, this is really cool. It's like a it's like a mix of like the cars meets Blondie, meets a little deaf leper, you know, a little stuff. And then that sparked a whole new album called Dance Like It's 1984. So then I started rapidly writing it was like a tribute to my to my youth. So there's like 10 tracks to that, they're not all done. You know, yeah, it's it's terrible because you know it's hard to focus. Um but uh I guess it's a good problem to have because it keeps me creating and it keeps my brain active. But there's no real process. I mean, if I'm doing something for a client, for a project, an ad or whatever, I I can basically come up with I when when there's when there's a uh a mission for a job, I can come up with stuff very quickly. And I the I I find the best stuff I come up with comes from having a lyric first. Gotcha. Because then that creates imagery, excuse me, imagery, absolutely, and then a vibe. Whereas if if if I come up in the music first all the time, too many songs start to sound the same, same chords, same this and that. So it can come from it can come from a line, it can come from watching a monkeys episode. You know, I love the monkeys, and uh I've always wanted to make like a monkeys album. And uh I remember I saw something and then I I I I made a monkeys track. Uh uh Sounds just like the monkeys, and it's it's about going to a party and uh seeing, you know, excited to see the girl you wanted to see, and she's dancing with another boy. In fact, that's what's I'll send it to you. I think you'll dig it.

Joey Stuckey 53:27

I love it. And I've had that happen before.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

Yeah, I'm sure, yeah.

Joey Stuckey 53:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:32

So, and you know, I don't I don't like to be autobiographical. In the early days, I thought that's what it was about. You write about your experiences, and then I started writing in code. So then you hear all these like metaphors, nobody understands what the hell you're saying, but I I totally understand. And then I realize, you know, you know, it's fun, is that, and because uh I don't have that that many experiences to talk about after having written like 600 songs, so yeah, you know, you'll you'll kind of like the unfinished business, you know, thing. You'll you'll hear the words and then make a fake story about it. So you you project an experience, so uh around uh you know, a pro you you create a projected experience around something rather than just like, oh, this happened to me and she did that or he did that. It's you know, I think it's more fun that way because it gives you more more more freedom to be creative. I love the creative lyrical writing of it.

Joey Stuckey 54:29

But it's I think that's that's very true, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:32

Yeah, it took me a long time to kind of really learn to write lyrics properly. Because uh even though I was uh undergrad, I was an English English literature major, so I read pretty much everything, all of Shakespeare, all that stuff. Um But to make it fun, I I didn't I was I wasn't I didn't understand the process of making it fun. You know, it for me it was more like I'm trying to express something, but it's not about me, really. You know, it's more fun to get to connect, to make people think about what you're saying or say, oh, that was an interesting wordplay. It took a while for me to learn that, you know. But that's other people really good point, yeah. Other people write about their experiences, it's totally fine. It's just I find it's more fun to make stuff up, like acting. You know, it's it's like acting. So I did a lot of acting. I was good, uh when I went to college, the I wanted to be a theater major. Yeah. But my my parents quickly uh made me said, well, they made me realize I'd be disowned because music was always like breathing. Yeah. You know, it was just so it just came. You just don't think about making a profession. I mean, you had dream, you know, I had dreams when I was a in a band being a singer and being Sarah LeBon, who's my favorite. Uh, but like it was all about um, you know, I had to pick a major and I was doing a lot of theatrical stuff in high school. It was really fun to just pretend to be somebody else. And lyric writing for me is like that. It's like acting, you're pretending to be somebody else, and it's just great fun to just word scenarios and characters in unusual made-up ways.

Joey Stuckey 56:23

And and and you know, you think correct me if I'm wrong, but I mean you think very visually too, right? I mean, when you're writing songs, you see the movie in your mind, and you yeah. And and and you do, if I remember correctly, and I may have this wrong, but I think you do a lot of videos with with your music.

SPEAKER_04 56:38

Is that I do, yeah, you know, even even little demos that may not be in perfect pitch, yeah. I'll I'll do it because I I feel like I need to keep driving my creativity, even if it's just not even a single. Yeah. Um, I don't I don't like to spend money on stuff like that because people get bombarded all the time.

SPEAKER_00 57:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:05

So I like to do it in my own way and um to drive the the little 20-second, 30-second feeling and and still keep content kind of driving. Uh you know, it's it goes back to making the most of what you have again. You know, there's some people who spend constantly lyric videos, and obviously if you have a big budget, then um fine, you know, you uh it's cool, but nobody has a big budget on an independent level if they're if they're uh relying on streaming. Right. It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:45

You know, too many people want to create the perception that's true of of success or whatever, but you know, it depending on who it is. I mean, if you're not on the road all the time, there's no point in investing in stuff like that. It's pointless. Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 58:02

I I like you say, I mean, I think um, you know, I I I'm always interested in being of service if I can, and uh helping people not to have to make the mistakes I made or whatever, you know. And uh so you know, you go into some of these um theoretically, they're they're they're you know chat rooms where you can you know help help people and get advice. Oftentimes they become uh dens of iniquity. I'm like, oh my God. But anyway, like you know, one of the things that starts a brawl in any audio forum is uh what's the best microphone to buy? And that is like, and I'm like, please do not ask this question. You're going to get trolled here, you're gonna get people, you're gonna get a lot of hate. You're gonna get a lot of hate. And uh, and and so uh my answer is whatever gets you to the sound you want fast enough. Like that's get get that one. But the the fact is, like, you know, I've taken absolutely nothing, I mean, recording equipment that's you know laughable and and and made something decent out of it. I mean, you know, and and you're right. So you you use what you I think that's really important. You know, one of the things that um again, this is sort of the brain tumor survivor attitude in me, uh, you know, is uh I have preferences, you know. Sure, I'd love to use the Neave console. That'd be great. Uh so I have preferences, but I'm a professional, so I will take what you give me and make it work. Like I don't have I work really hard not to have things that like, oh, if I don't have X, I can't do my job. Like I just I just I just don't believe in that. I just you know, and I like you saying, you know, use what you got, and and then you're I think honestly you're forced to really be creative. Yes, absolutely. You know, it even more so than than if you had your choices. So I like that when I worked with Alan Parsons um and got a chance to be on some recording sessions with him, and you know, he he uh be uh started trusting my judgment on some things, which is a a real honor. Uh and uh I don't say anything unless I have something to say. Um, but um what was interesting was you know, Alan started with the Beatles when he was 19, you know. I mean, that's and uh granted he was a tape operator, you know, and he worked his way up, but um, you know, he has always been in a position to take his time. Well, like, you know, this is back when Neal Records had real budgets, and they, you know, but and of course there was a lot of time wasted uh by by people being stoned at other mines or whatever. But uh, but but anyway, my point is like, you know, he he's always had the luxury of time to make um decisions. And Joey's clients do not have that budget. Right. We have to learn to make decisions fast, and we just hope that the right ones. And so, you know, I noticed when we were working, I was like, I came to this, we came to the same conclusion, but I came there like two hours ahead of time, you know, and it's it was just you know, so it comes back to that use of what you got. Um, I think that's a wonderful mantra to to have.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:10

And well, I'll tell you something funny. Yeah, is uh, you know, the first tracks I ever got got licensed were four-track recordings. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:18

So the um the a music supervisor over at Viacom heard the stuff and asked for all the variation mixes, all the vocal, all the instrumental mixes, and none of that stuff was mastered. Right. That and that was the stuff on the first Grammy nominated record, and it still hasn't been mastered. Oh, really? Yeah, so that happened around 2000 where those got licensed, and they've probably been an every reality show ever known. I mean, my ass cap statements are 50 pages long. That's awesome. You know, there's they get used and used and used and used and used, even songs today, you know. So I both uh licensed those to Vicom and Buna Murray and CBS and and things like that. And they were never mastered, and yet they keep using them.

Joey Stuckey 1:02:06

That is incredible. I love it. And that's where we're gonna have to leave it for today. This is part one of my two part interview with my very talented friend, Eric Alexandrakis, fantastic, two time Grammy nominated artist. And uh, we will see him again next week on Stuck on Sound.