Joey Stuckey 0:00

Welcome to Stuck on Sound. I'm your host, Joey Stucky. We are picking up today with part two of my interview with two-time Grammy nominated artist Eric Alexandricis. He is a fantastic fellow and a good friend. And we're going to start talking, uh, picking up here basically where he did his first album while he was dealing with cancer. So we're going to pick up the conversation right now. Tell me real quickly about so so you know, you you discovered you had cancer. Um you were making a record during that time. I'm I'm assuming there were days you felt good and days you didn't. Um and and then I wanted let's let people know like what happened with that with that those that those multitracks because you got you got the attention of someone that that you admired. Um and and and things kind of took a a a turn. So what was that tell tell that story if you don't mind? I'd like to share that.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

So um let's see, I had just finished the first six months of chemo and I wasn't really supposed to go and I and I started working uh in the in the cruise ship business because I needed money and I needed insurance and I needed you know stuff.

Joey Stuckey 1:20

Now were you uh were you doing were you a musician or something else?

SPEAKER_03 1:24

No, I was uh no, I was in their offices doing legal work because I had legal classes in grad school and they needed somebody to handle claims. I'm like, Okay, I can do that. So I mean, originally it brought me in because they wanted to start an entertainment side, they were gonna purchase another cruise line, but that fell through, and they're like, Well, we actually need help with these claims, and you've had law classes and and uh you understand, and you can work with the CFO. I'm like, okay, I'll take it. So, which was a lot of fun. Um, kind of reading about drunk British old British men putting their wives in a headlock and punching them in the face and having to settle, you know.

Joey Stuckey 2:09

Did you write any songs about that?

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Uh no. No. It's never too late. Probably would have been interesting. Yeah. But I I would write songs while at work. So, you know, I I found some printouts of the, you know, on uh I I would write them in like an email message and rather than opening up, say, a Word document. So if somebody came in and saw me, they just see an email message open. I like it, you know, so I could conceal. And I remember going to the car and taking calls and kind of disappearing. But anyway, um so six months of chemo. I wasn't really supposed to be in public places, and then I opened up kind of the local news uh weekend free paper, and it said Jonathan Taylor live on uh so-and-so day. I'm like, Jonathan Taylor? Did they mean John Taylor? He never went by the name Jonathan. So I'm like, I wonder if this is Jon. So I call the venue, I'm like, is this Jon from Duran Duran? They're like, yeah. I'm like, why are you guys calling him Jonathan Taylor? Like, nobody's gonna know it's him. So I say, I'm so going, because that that's been that original lineup is basically always be my favorite band. I I cannot blame you. That's a good lineup. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just pure magic. Yeah. So I um I was like, I'm going. So the day of the gig, there was a tropical storm. This was in Miami, tropical storm warning. And I was wondering if they're gonna cancel. And they said, no, it's not canceled. So I'm always early to everything airports, concerts, like ridiculously early. So I I was the first one there. I was standing under the canopy. There's a tropical storm blowing like hell, and I'm under the canopy. Somehow, I don't know why I didn't get soaked. And um, one of my buddies came later with his girlfriend, and then you know, I was like, let's walk in and and just act like we belong. So we walked in, act like we belong, maybe to kind of catch a glimpse of him. And I brought my my two four-track cassette albums uh and or the the first completed one and then the second one. No, it was both, actually, because that was yeah, that was when I finished chemo. So um, and uh they threw us out, of course. So then I went back, I went back to the canopy, and he and his girlfriend went to the car. So, or his girlfriend went to the car, and then and then there was a hotel next door. This was in Hallendale, Florida. And I was seeing the crew coming back and forth bringing gear. I'm like, oh, you know, they're probably staying there. It was like a holiday in or something, a day's in. So I'm like, well, let's, you know, let's let's go sit in the lobby. He's bound to come down to the lobby. So we go sit in the lobby, and then suddenly here is John in yellow socks and uh glasses and asking for an ironing board.

Joey Stuckey 5:14

I love it.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

Yeah, so so I said, I said to my buddy Kurt, I said, dude, don't go up to him, don't do anything. And then suddenly something took over my body like a magnet, and I just found myself walking towards him. And I say, Hey John, I really enjoy, you know, admire you and your some of my stuff. And he was very nice and he took it. And during the gig, I was right up in the front, and he was it we had a cool interaction, and after the gig, there was only like 30 people there. Wow. A because Tropical Storm was bad badly advertised, yeah. And it was a tropical storm. He talks about in his book. I actually have a photo credit in his book of the gig and his first solo album, actually. Uh and so he invited everybody in the back and took pictures and uh, you know, looking at that photo. I've never released the photo publicly because I just finished chemo and I look like a corpse.

unknown 6:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

Really disturbing. So uh maybe a month later, he reaches out to me and says he wanted to sell my first solo album on his new website. And it was a very it was the first really web zine selling merch of its kind. It was called Trust the Process. It was really cool. It had like an art gallery, it had a photography section, short story section, history of his band section, and it had a store and sold his stuff and my stuff. Wow. And over time he added maybe two more artists before it got shut down. Um, and then um that really gave me this encouragement motivation. Then, and then my company was represented Duran Duran for a number of years for different things, and he played on some of my stuff. And uh I mean, I'm in contact with their camp a lot, especially with their manager who I've known over 20 years. So, and you know, Warren Cucarulo, we were close friends, and so you know, it's been a 30-year relationship with them. Well, actually, it's been a lifelong relationship if you count, you know, being a fan since I was nine. Yeah. Uh and so that that's that's really that's it. You know, I mean, he's credited with discovering me. And you know, it it definitely helped with with promotional stuff to get people's ears and interest and things like that. And uh, I'll put it on my gravestone if I have to.

Joey Stuckey 7:54

Well, I mean, how how amazing is that to have a hero like also value your music? I mean, that's that's that's a that's a very uh powerful experience.

SPEAKER_03 8:07

You know, it's it's wild. So so I I hadn't heard that first album in a long time, and I was on an airplane, I was listening to it, and I'm and I'm listening to it, I'm like, this sounds like someone who wanted to kill themselves, literally. Yeah, and I wasn't in that headspace at all. I've never that's never been a thing for me, right? But but he was going through stuff at the time, I was going through stuff at the time, and I think he just connected to it. But I but I listened to it, and like I would be concerned for this person if I'd heard this album. So, you know, he's he's always been encouraging when I got my first nomination. I mean, the letter he wrote me was like, you know, pinch my nine-year-old self. It was just really cool. And I saw him a few years ago backstage in Denver, and he was great, and they were great, and they're always great. It's it's amazing how how life kind of does that thing. But you know, I had to make that happen. I I I had to go into the tropical storm and stand in the windy thing and said, Nope, I'm here and I'm gonna do it. And that's how I've pretty much done everything. Well, I admire that. I don't generally take no for an answer unless I hear no, and then it's like, well, is it a no or is it a no? You know, because that's exactly that's exactly but you know, like in in Dumb and Dumber, where Jim Carrey asks uh Mary Samsonite, you know, says, So is there a chance? And she's like, not a big one. He's like, so there's a chance.

Joey Stuckey 9:37

But that is really indicative of people who are uh, for lack of a better word, successful, because I mean it's it's the chance. I mean, you know, I've done the same thing. Like, I don't why I mean, you know, if I don't try, the answer is always no. Right, exactly. You know, I mean, and and so if you do try, you you may find something there. And uh and that's I think that's really important. And I think, and you know, and you're you're like me in the sense that, you know, really you probably shouldn't have been in public after going through chemo, you know, with all the germs around. And, you know, I mean, yeah, that that could have been a really a really bad situation. Uh, but you know, I I mean you didn't even have a crowd to contend with. And this this the storm uh helped you out a little bit with that. But I think, you know, my wife is an advanced practice nurse, and she's absolutely one of the most brilliant people that I've ever met, and and not only that, one of the kindest and and just a real healer. Uh and um uh I think there's far fewer of those in our medical profession than I would like. Uh, but she she just, you know, she's in it because she wants to help and she she you know, she really takes her oath seriously. And uh there are days when because of my health challenges that I have to manage, she's like, you you can't you can't go to work today. This is not this is not acceptable. And you know, my position is uh I'll die on stage. You know, it's like that. I mean, my I mean literally, I mean, I just I want to drop while I'm working. I I just you know, I want to be right. Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, I prefer not to drop, but I I don't have that power. So at some point it's gonna happen. But I mean, I just I just I love going, I love being, I love doing, and and uh and so she you know, she's the one that kind of you know will will reel me back in on occasion, and she's not wrong. Uh but but I don't know, but my spirit doesn't work that way. I mean, my and so you know it's the same kind of thing. Um, I I I had a similar uh opportunity to meet Alan Parsons. I kind of mentioned this earlier, and um I decided that I was just gonna be myself and um and that I was going to uh if if I could make a valuable contribution, um, and if I couldn't, I keep my mouth shut. Uh but if but if I could and I was able to speak with him and participate, I was gonna do that. And I I was I was just like you said, I mean, I was just uh in a different headspace there and just kind of took some chances. And he could have said, oh, there who's this adoring blind man that's you know thinks he knows stuff. Um and but but what happened instead was a relationship of mutual respect. And I actually have a video message from Allen Parsons uh saying, you know, for those of you that don't know Joey Stuckey, he's got the best ears in the music business. Now, uh I'm not gonna claim that, but I'm also not gonna argue about it. That is my that's my Grammy. That's what I that's the thing about.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

That's quite the endorsement.

Joey Stuckey 12:45

I mean, well, that's that's the thing where I if I if I feel bad some days, I I think back to like, hey, I made a valuable contribution. And I saw on your bio that you've worked with Vinny Caludo, and I've I've I've had a chance to do a session. My buddy. Yeah. I had a chance, he won't, I doubt he'll remember me, but uh, but I I worked with him with Alan on on uh the sorcerer's apprentice uh uh tune. And uh I was responsible for moving a hi-hat microphone that I didn't like. Uh and I was not I was not happy with the placement. And uh Alan's like, Alan's like, I I think it's okay. I was like, yeah, it's really not. And uh and so a few minutes later I hear this sigh. And I'm like, what's the day like, I'm gonna go move the stupid hi-hat mic because you don't like it. But anyway, my point is like I think taking that chance, I mean it's the worst that can happen. I mean, you know, like you just well, you have to, yeah. Get out there and and do it. And and that's why I've always been willing to give my time and and give people a chance, you know, not that I have the reach uh of a Duran Duran or an Alan Parsons, but you know, whatever whatever benefit I can give someone who truly is talented and also has a good work ethic, I mean, I'm all about it. Um, you know, and and you've done so many interesting things. I mean, you've been, you know, an artist, but you do you do uh film and TV placement. Um, and I that's been a big part of your career. Um, and and and you know, you've you've really you know, you wear a bunch of hats, uh, Tim Foil hat famously. Um I'm so sad that I can't see that picture. Do you know that story? Well, I do because your wife snitched on you. Uh well, do you know what happened with the Greek press? Yes, but I want let's tell it. Let's tell the story because I mean, you know, this is this is your brand.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Well, let me let me tell you something first with regard to nurses. Okay. I I think the most important people on the planet are nurses, teachers, and creatives.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:41

But nurses take care of everybody, they pick up the blood, they pick up the vomit, they take care of you. I mean, I've had I've been lucky, I've had a lot of great nurses, maybe one bad one who kept sticking the needle in me to get blood and couldn't get a vein, and you're not supposed to do that. Nope. But but um with creatives, creatives move society forward. Creatives are the ones who imagine the architecture, imagine you know, Leonardo da Vinci imagining the helicopter. Right. Um, you see, you know, you see cultures who have outlawed creative expression and they're still living in the dark ages.

Joey Stuckey 15:17

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

So without creatives, society does not move forward, and which which amazes me that they cut funding for arts in the US.

Joey Stuckey 15:25

Oh, it's it's breaking, it just makes me sick.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

Well, because you're halting progress progression. You know, creativity gives birth to science and architecture and and and sound and just ideas. So, you know, just but but but nurses my nurse was on the cover of you know my second solo album, Monite.

Joey Stuckey 15:45

Oh, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 15:45

Yeah, she's wonderful, holding a needle. Yeah, she was awesome. A big one? I uh you uh yeah, it was pretty big. I had a whole box set that I made for that album with medical products, and I made trading cards of all my nurses. Wow, yeah, interesting. That's so cool. It's pretty fun. It was a limited edition. I made like 250 boxes. I I raided a medical warehouse in Miami and had fake blood and IVs and all these different kind of vitamin supplements, and and uh yeah, it was it was a fun thing. That is cool because I've always been into graphic design as well, right? And I've always loved like packaging, music packaging, graphic design, and you know guys like Malcolm Garrett from the 80s who designed all the simple minds and Duran and Culture Club and just all that stuff using symbols. I love the the design and the photography side of all that stuff.

Joey Stuckey 16:42

So do you do all your covers yourself? I mean, or is that all you? Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Yeah. Yeah. I shoot all of them, I design them all, and I I allowed uh a kid I was mentoring uh to do one of them. She really wanted to, but then she turned out to be uh an ungrateful bad person. So I I switched them out. Yeah. Yeah, it was it was like wow, it's like the one time I allow somebody to do it, and and it turns out this way, I'm like, there's no way I'm gonna I'm gonna allow this cover to to for the eons to be the cover. So but um but anyway, what was the sorry, what was the what was the question you asked again?

Joey Stuckey 17:25

Well, yeah, what we were talking about was was uh we were just we were just saying that, you know, and I by the way, I want to just echo uh something you said, which is I think I take my job as an artist probably too seriously, but I mean I feel like we have an obligation to introduce new ideas and also to record history.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

I don't think you can take it too seriously. I think take life, don't take life so seriously, but I take the work super serious.

Joey Stuckey 17:50

Well, I'm glad you feel that way because I I feel like obligated. I I feel like I have a duty, I feel like I have a responsibility, and uh I take it real seriously. Yeah, I really, I really take it seriously. And you know, uh, but anyway, yeah, we were just we were just talking about uh uh all the different, you know, we were talking about taking chances, and then we were talking about uh um your first uh your first record, uh how that wasn't mastered, and then how you also did all these different things with film and TV. And so we and then and then we got sidetracked, and God knows, I'm not sure where we left off. Uh but it but anyway, yeah, it was I think the um but but I did I do think that you had a a powerful point about uh about you know the the sort of the three kinds of people that move society forward. And I I think that um just jumping off on that since we have both lost track of the other thread. Uh the I I think the other thing is that that you know uh you can tell a society that's flourishing by what its art is doing, and you can tell a society that's stagnating, you know, the same way.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

I mean, look at Florence, Italy. I love Florence, yeah. They I mean, obviously you can't look at it, but but but you know, you could read about it and it it's still pretty much the way it was back in the day. They've preserved the buildings, you know. Italy's amazing. Like, how did this one place come up with the this the Italian cars, Italian buildings, Italian girls, Italian food, Italian clothes? Like they it's just such a creative hub. Um and you know, uh so but it was it was part of their culture. You know, same thing with Greece, you know, with all the Parthenons and you know, all that stuff. It was part of the culture, and it moved the the culture and society forward, mathematics and science, and how do you know how do you figure out to make these columns each you know uh create force perspective or or whatever it is, and and that was through creativity. And without creativity, there's there's no progress. So it amazes me that they they limit the funds of the Oh, it's it's it's just it's ridiculous.

Joey Stuckey 20:10

And and the other thing, but I will say about Italy, you know, I really I got a chance to be there. Oh god, what see this was 23, and um I'd I had uh I'd never been to Milan before, and so I was in I was speaking at a conference as a keynote, and uh it was the Ismer conference, and it was uh really, really it was just such an amazing experience. And what I what I loved about it was you know how creative everybody was around me. I mean, the the you talk about the food. I mean, our hotel was right in the middle of the fashion district. Now, I really can't appreciate the fashion side of things, um, but and that's that I remember the thread now. We're gonna put your tinfoil hat. Uh, but uh oh yes, yeah. So uh but but I was in the middle of that, and you know, a block and a half from our hotel was this bakery. So we'd get up in the morning uh before we went to the conference and and go have you know this fresh baked goods, and it was it was incredible. And then, you know, so much creativity and so much music. We uh so I I was there to speak uh uh you know about audio, and uh that was uh doing the keynote speech uh there. And uh and then um you know, of course, I enjoyed the rest of the conference with you know other people, and there's a lot of uh very uber technical science-y things going on, a lot of a lot of mathematical papers being presented and just real interesting stuff. And then uh they had the big uh closing party, and they said, you know, well, since we got you, um, this is before they they hired me, but they said, Hey, while you're here, we're gonna have a big closing party. Uh you know, will you play? Um, sure. Oh, just uh so if I said, Look, just do me a favor. You don't know the hell that it is for a blind man to get through the airports and the Trains with a guitar. It just sucks. If you will get me a guitar, I will play and sing. And uh, you know, and and they said, Okay, you know, we'll pay you this, we'll do whatever. And and so they said, Well, what kind of guitar do you want? And I'm like, you know, uh there how about if I tell you the ones I don't want? A 1962 Les Paul. Absolutely. So we did, but anyway, we did what was so amazing where it was that we were surrounded by people who were, for lack of a better word, musical scientists. Um, the people that were, you know, data crunchers and all this stuff at the ISMR conference. It's it's musicians, yes, but it's it's scientists who are working with, you know, how does music interact with AI and all these, just all these different things. And they were all musically talented.

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 22:47

And so there was like, you know, 400 people at this party um in in Italy, um, and they were rabid music fans. I mean, I felt like, and I kid you not, I felt like the Beatles at Shea Stadium or something. I mean, it was just, it was nuts how much they loved music and how important music was to them in their daily lives. It was just, it was so anyway. What I was saying is as we talked about this earlier, Europe still has, you know, a real place in their lives for musical expression. Um, and that I think that's really exciting. But we were talking about your tinfoil hat. That's where we uh and you were gonna tell the story about the Greek press.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

So that's uh let's just say I was I was um driving somewhere into another state because of uh some land we have over there, and I had to look up some records in the in the uh in their kind of uh archives. And it it you know, it was one of those places where you think you're on another planet, and the the joke was uh I could feel my IQ dropping the the moment I went past the line. And and if you want to edit this out, it's totally fine.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

I will, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Um so just driving around town, it's it was not a pleasant experience. So I was like, I gotta get out of here. This is you know, so I I I wrapped my head in tinfoil as a joke, and I put the picture on Instagram, and then when the nomination, first nomination came in in Greece, that that's the picture all these magazines and newspapers were using with the tinfoil on my head. So I love it. So I saw it, I'm like, I don't get it. Are they mocking me? So I so I asked the re one of the reporters, and I'm like, why in the world are you guys using this? They're like, Oh, we just think it looks cool. I'm like, it's freaking tinfoil. Okay, so you know, be careful what you put out there.

Joey Stuckey 24:50

Well, I as I recalled, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell a story here. Your wife told me that she had begged you for years to, you know, get some some other photos out there.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

Yeah, she she does, but that that was just a post, you know. It's like, oh, I was in so-and-so and I had to put on my head because it's like a wasteland.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Which is never a nice thing to say because people are whatever they are.

Joey Stuckey 25:15

And well, well, you you you've clearly been paid back for that comment.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, it was it was just ridiculous. I you know, I just I would that was never meant to be an official photo of anything. It was just like I took a trip and you know, ha ha ha, isn't this fun? Yeah, yeah.

Joey Stuckey 25:31

Well, I mean most of them that's what you get.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Yeah, most of my photos are I try to be on the avant-garde side.

Joey Stuckey 25:38

Well, I know you like filters and stuff like that. Um and I remember my sweet wife, you know, we have a live day celebration uh concert here every year. You were kind enough to send me a message for that. Uh and Jen, Jen, my wife, uh looked at it and said, uh, it's pixelated. I wonder, you know, uh, I wonder if there's something weird happened in the email or something. And and then I was like, and then and she so she emailed you, I'm sure you won't remember this, but she emailed you and said, Hey, is it and you're like, Oh, yeah, it's supposed to be that way. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So and that's when I realized, oh, he must love filters. And why not?

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Um I just don't want to be like everybody else. I don't blame you. That's really what it is. And if I could do just even the most subtle kind of thing to set myself apart, even if you know it screws things up, you know, I I I just don't want to be the same. It's funny, like my buddy Sandro, a photographer, you know, he his wife uh asked me to do a happy birthday uh video for his um I think it was a 60th or something. And every you know, I saw some of the ones that people did, and it was just like happy birthday, and hope you have a good day. So, what mine was, of course, was a was was a strobe light of of a mannequin head uh dancing and screaming, singing happy birthday to like metal or something. That's amazing. And you know, and he was like, You're nuts. I'm like, I don't know.

unknown 27:09

Yeah, you know.

Joey Stuckey 27:10

I mean, a banner that you can wear proudly.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

Yeah, yeah. So I it just I have to be creative as much as I possible in a day or I feel like.

Joey Stuckey 27:17

I mean, do you do you feel yeah, do you feel you I I think you do you feel sort of disingenuous when you're not being different?

SPEAKER_03 27:24

I mean, that's you know, uh I mean there's a time and place for it, you know. I I don't I don't go around to to shopping in like a bunny suit or anything, but I'm oh well now that's what I want. Yeah, well, you never know. The day is young. But but but I feel like if I'm asked to do something within a creative realm, I have to do it my way. Absolutely. I love that. Um now if somebody's paying me to do something their way, uh different story. Yeah, but but then I you know I always put my personality in it as well. So well, that's what I did.

Joey Stuckey 28:01

I mean, I just a friend of mine who's uh uh you know a two-time Grammy winning artist. Um I won't say who because I don't know when the record's coming out, but uh she she contacted me and said, Will you play guitar on this track? I was like, you know, I'll be delighted to. And uh so she she kind of had things that she wanted. Um, and uh, you know, fortunately she was able to communicate that uh to me, which is always nice. So because there's a lot of times the client doesn't know what they want, but it's not what you gave them. And uh and so and so uh I said, well, she played ukulele on one track, kind of trying to show me what she wanted. And uh I said, Well, you know, honestly, I mean I'll play guitar on these chords and everything if that's what you want. But I mean, the youkes sound great. I mean, I I don't know you know why you'd want to trade these out, but you know, I'll what I'll do is is I'll give you what you asked for, and and uh, and then I'm gonna give you like tracks that are further and further away from what you asked for, uh that that have my my spin on it. So I'm gonna give you about you know 85% of what you asked for with my touch on it, which you know theoretically is the reason you asked me to play so that I put my touch on it. Um so you know, and and it's just it, but it you're right. I mean, you have to do you know, you have to get the client what they need, but at the same time, you gotta give them you know who you are as well, because that's really where the value's at in my mind.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

Well, if yeah, if somebody asks me to play on something, I I don't take suggestions. Yeah, yeah. But my thing is like I mean, it's different if if if it's for an ad and you have to hit a demographic and you have to do a certain style. But if somebody says, hey, can you play on this song? I I don't do a lot of it. Um, it has to be something I like, and I have to, you know, it has to I have to feel like it's moving me forward creatively. Right. And in the rare moment that I do it, I don't take suggestions because my thought is, you're asking me because of me.

Joey Stuckey 29:59

That's that's right. That's what it should be. You should be asking that was something that took me my first record to learn because the first record I did when I was in my 20s uh was really painful. Uh and but I you know I micromanaged it. I mean, uh, you know, which is a terrible thing to do. Why was it painful? Why it was painful because nobody believed in me. And and they they all thought that all my ideas were crazy. And um, and you know, I had these, of course, I was in my 20s, I was like, you know, 21, 22, and all the guys that I was that I that I had on the record were in their 40s. Um, I see.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

I I used to get that same thing.

Joey Stuckey 30:40

Yeah, yeah, because I well they just were the only thing.

SPEAKER_03 30:42

He's the young guy, he doesn't know what he's doing. Well, we're older.

Joey Stuckey 30:45

Well, and well, and the other thing is, but I had to play with the guys in their 40s because they were the only ones that keep up. I mean, like, like, you know, I needed seasoned musicians to keep up, and like, and they're like, that's a stupid drum fill. I'm like, yeah, but it's but it's what I want. You know, you may not like it, but that's what I'm looking for. So, but what I learned for the second record was to surround myself with people that I admired who they were and what they did, and said, like, here's the loose structure, be you, you know, just just be you, and that will give me what I want because I'm asking you to play because I like what you do. You know, I don't and I don't have to micromanage anymore. And um, and that was a real step forward, you know, for me as a producer, because now what I do is I I have six or seven different guys I can call in to play drums, and I just I bring in the one that's gonna automatically be in the zone of what I'm looking for, and they're gonna add their magic to it. And that's you know, yeah, it's like you well, that's the way to produce a record.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

Well, yeah. I mean, if you're gonna hire Steve Ferroni or Vinnie Calliuda, are you gonna tell them what to play? Of course you're not. I mean, not ideally. What are you crazy? Like, you know, and and I I've recorded with Steve like a lot of stuff. And he oftentimes he's like, he he knows that I I'm not gonna tell him what to do because what am I why would I tell him what to do?

Joey Stuckey 32:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Sometimes he's like, he's like, well, what do you think here? I'm like, listen, dude, I'm not I'm not qualified to tell you now. If there's a certain hook or breakdown, you know, just for a dynamic, I'll just say, well, here, you know, if you can lay out, because I'm gonna do this. Okay. Right. But but usually I've always been very much a control freak with my stuff. And only in the last maybe 15, 10, 15 years I've learned to kind of let go a bit more. Because I always it's like what Trevor Raven said. It's like, you know, you can either do it my way or the wrong way. But then I think I think that limits you because I've had I've had this side project that's been on the shelf for years, it's called Electron, and it's basically a revolving door of people. And so I would come up with an idea and I would give it to say, Steve, you know, do it your bit, Mark Egan, do your bit, or you know, Perry from the Cure, do your bit, and then it would take shape. And and with that process, I would give them all writing and master credit as well, because they're what they do is shaping what it's gonna end up and what I'm gonna do in the end. And that's so in that side, I I I do like collabs because it's also moving me forward. But I generally don't do collabs because I get asked every week. Sure. But a you know, uh for me to do that, it it it can get a bit expensive.

Joey Stuckey 33:34

Although I I have done stuff for nothing if I like the thing and you know it I Well, I mean the thing about the thing about the collaborative process, I mean you really have to love the other person, uh, to trust them with with the baby of your creation and and to let them put their fingerprints on it. You need to you need to have a lot of respect for each other and just a lot of a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03 33:55

Well, plus also there's this thing, you know, in kind of our our recording academy circle where people just want your name to try to get the votes. I mean, I've been offered production credits without ever be producing the record. Yeah. And they're like, well, you helped and you gave me good advice. Yeah, but I I didn't do anything. Like I didn't I didn't give you one quarter note. Like, is that fair to the people who did the work to somebody bring in a guy just because you think it's gonna broaden? Uh you know, so I've seen that. I've seen that a lot. Yeah, um, I know you did, I know you have, you know. Yeah, but um, so you know, it it really has to be something interesting.

Joey Stuckey 34:33

And now when are you when is this record coming up? It sounds it sounds exciting. I mean, what's you know how far down the list is it?

SPEAKER_03 34:43

It's really like I don't know. There's it's so hard to kind of you know, I have to finish a a feet two-hour feature film uh that I'm working on, which is it's a documentary on um photographer Mark Hauser, who he's not very well known name-wise, but he shot a lot of amazing photos and he was pretty out there. And so like that that's kind of the priority right now. And I just finished another short film thing for the Steppenwolf Theater's 50th anniversary, which is going to be an exhibit next month in Chicago. Um, and I'm prepping an orchestral thing. So I don't know. I mean, if the and that this all goes back to the sleep problem.

Joey Stuckey 35:29

What you don't do is what my wife and her medical colleagues did because they were going to school for their master's degree and working at the hospital. What you don't do is mainline caffeine with an IV.

SPEAKER_03 35:43

Uh well, that's what gave me the cancer.

Joey Stuckey 35:47

Well, there you go.

SPEAKER_03 35:48

You know, you know, did do you know the story of how I got that? Okay, so in 1994, I there was an incident, I won't go into it, but there was an incident that kind of gave me uh it was it was very upsetting and it gave me a lot of regret. And basically in summer of 94, which I was starting grad school a few days later. So, because of all the regret and the kind of devastation from this particular incident, I dove into work. I've always been a workaholic, but I dove into work uh hardcore with you know, I had to get an internship during the grad school program the last semester of of school, but I started it two days after school started. So I was doing it the whole time. So every day after school, I went to the Slabable Management Company, I worked there, I was doing sessions all week long, sometimes 8 p.m. to 8 a.m. Oh my god. Uh every during the week and on the weekends. And I I'd just been recording every weekend for my four years of college. Like every weekend I had sessions. So uh I was doing that. I was studying, I was part of the school record label, I was part of this other organization, we had parties, I was going to conferences, uh partying, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So by April of 1995, I think it was, when I was producing the album with the watermark, to do that, we had sessions every week that were literally 8 p.m. to 8 a.m. And to stay awake, I would buy a 12-pack of Coke and chug it all all my time to stay awake. Yeah. So what happened was I was-ride. Yeah, it was terrible. So I was exhausted, lowered my immune system, and all of that sugar basically caused what it caused. Because at the rate of growth, by the time it was found, it was the size of a fist. Stage three. I was pushing my rib cage outward. So, you know, looking at being able to trace the kind of rate of growth when I relapsed, it was basically traced to that time. Wow. So my my whole mental thing was, I gotta do this, I gotta do this, or I'll miss the opportunity. I'll miss the opportunity, I'll miss like I did with the thing that kind of bothered me in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Right.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

So um, so that what's interesting is that so that caught the the overwork and the the sugar is what caused the cancer. But what's interesting is that whole mentality of, I'm running out of time, I gotta do this, I don't want to regret anything ever again. I gotta do this now. Like, what's happening? I want to do it. I gotta, you know, I got into this frantic mode, which defined the rest of my years. Because when I hear of an opportunity right now, and it's interesting to me, and I want to go for it, I get into that frantic mode again.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

Because I've been conditioned through that experience to just be like, I gotta do it, I gotta do it, I gotta go, I gotta do it, I gotta do it. Yeah, whereas whereas the the thing that sparked it, I don't even think about it. But but I was so conditioned from thinking that way that it's basically part of how I look at everything. I gotta do it, I gotta do it, I gotta do it. No, I'm not gonna miss out. No, no way I'm gonna miss out. I gotta do that. Right.

Joey Stuckey 39:18

So I feel you.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

Yeah, so in a way it helped. You know, it defined, it just put me on steroids, almost killed me twice. But but you know, it was uh that's that's how the sickness came about. That and when I and when after I finished my first treatment, I kind of went back to my crazy hours again. I was working at this cruise ship company, right? And then have dinner, five o'clock, drive to the studio, and be producing an album for somebody till three in the morning, and then get up, go to work the next day. And it came back uh a year after my relapse. It was like half the size of a chicken egg in the same exact place, which didn't make sense because it melted after three months of treatment. Sure. So I still don't know. So I did have so I was in the hospital for a month with a stem cell transplant. They had no idea if I was gonna survive, right? Which I had no idea until a few years ago because it would have freaked me out. And you know, they put catheters in me with no anesthesia because nobody told me not to eat that morning. And oh my god. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. So I got turned into a borg.

Joey Stuckey 40:24

Oh no, I I've been there. I yeah, you know all about it. Well, I mean, you know, that was I I mean, I my sickness was when I was a child. I mean, I was like 18 months old. Uh and um, you know, my parents gave me as much agency over my own health as was reasonable for a child, uh, which is you know not a lot. But but I mean, you know, I was an ICU after the tumor came out. Uh that well, they didn't know it was a tumor for a while. And then what happened was I fell down a flight of stairs and uh they rushed me through the ER. It was like 30 stairs. How old were you when you fell down the stairs? I was 18 months old. So I was already I was already walking, I started talking full sentences like when I was 11 months old. So uh, and then my mom said, Yes, but I don't think my son he doesn't seem to be tracking me. He doesn't I I don't something's not right. And they're like, You're overprotected, mother, go home and bake cookies, everything's fine. Poor parents, and and oh, they were they were they're incredible. So then, like I said, my dad, you know, walked away from me and I and I didn't know there was a stairway, and I just took a couple of steps and went flying down these stairs, and they were concrete, that's the thing. And uh, so they rushed into the ER and like, oh, I think this kid's blind. And uh, and and then they're like, Well, you know, we got to fair, like, so why is he blind? Oh, there's a tumor. So it was this whole thing. And uh they all said to my parents, um, you know, he's he's not gonna make it. Um, and and my dad said, Well, you know, not with that attitude, I want to talk to somebody else. And uh, and so they did it. And uh he said, Well, look, here's the thing. He's like, you know, we have to do the surgery to take the tumor out. If we don't, then then he's not going to survive. But if we do, it's gonna take about eight hours and it's going to be, you know, he probably won't walk or talk if he survives. And um, and so, you know, but what you know, what are you gonna do? So you you yeah, they said, well, you know, we gotta do this, we gotta take the chance. So they did, and it came out in three hours. And so my parents were freaked out. I mean, they were just like, oh my god, because they they said, look, if it if we come out in less than eight hours, you know, things didn't go well. Uh, and the doctor was like, Hey, you know what? We got in there, we you got the tumor out. Where was it? Uh oh, where was the tumor? Yeah, yeah. So the tumor was, and my wife is much better explaining this than I have, but uh, it was right over my um pituitary gland. So it was in my, it was in my skull, and they had to, this is back in the dark ages, you know, the of the of the of the 70s and uh, you know, late 70s or whatever it was. And uh so they I have a scar that starts on my right ear and goes all the way to the middle of my forehead. Um and they had to take that whole flap of skull out and then pull the pull the tumor out. But the problem was it had already destroyed all my octic nerves, so I can't see, I can't smell. It destroyed me olfactory nerves, and then it destroyed my endocrine system, so I don't make adrenaline, I don't make thyroid, I don't make all this stuff. And so um, so I had to control all that. But, you know, and then I was in ICU for like 45 days after that, and then I had to wear this padded helmet for a while because of the brain surgery. And then as a child, there were many, many times that I got sick with, you know, like a flu or something, but because of the brain tumor, it was like really severe and almost killed me and all this stuff. So I almost died a bunch as a child, uh, you know, three or four different times. Then then, you know, and and I just really had to focus on survival. I just I never went to a blind school. I just went to like a regular school and just sort of you know toughed it out and figured it out. And um and it but I mean that's I'm with you because I was so annoyed anytime I was bedridden, right? I was like I was like, get me out of here so I can do something. And there were several amazing opportunities my dad had because of his position in politics and stuff that I missed. I mean, you know, uh when when Bill Nelson uh went to space, I don't know if you remember this, uh uh he was one of the senators that went to space in the 80s, and um, and I was invited to watch that from Mission Control um in NASA. And I couldn't because I I was sick and and uh and that really pissed me off. And like you, I'm a big science nerd. I love physics. I mean, all the things I watch on TV are like science shows and you know, and so um you know, there was a lot of little things like that. Like we were we were invited by the ambassador of Barbados to come over for two weeks and stay at the stay stay with him and do all these things, yeah, you know, and I was like, oh my God, I can't, I can't miss this opportunity, you know. And I and I still feel like, I mean, I think you would probably agree that uh uh sometimes in in our industry, uh, you know, being at the right place at the right time is a big part of being successful. Absolutely. You know, and so if you if you're sick or something and you can't you can't be at the right place at the right time, I you know, I find that vexing. So you know, I I really do I feel the same way you do. Well, my question to you is I mean, do you do you fight that instinct of kind of being uh manics not really the right word, but you know, do of being like I've got to do this, I gotta do this, or or do you just let it be what it is? Like what what is what is your process now? I know what it was then, but what is your process now when when you have those feelings? I still go for it. I like it.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

Yeah, well it's just a matter of like what it entails.

Joey Stuckey 46:08

Yeah, I I'm the same way, but I I will say, and I think you're probably in the same place. I and uh you know, I will say that I have stopped taking on certain things.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

Yeah, I'm trying to scale back, like go to sleep at 10, you know.

Joey Stuckey 46:22

Well, yeah, I mean that, but I mean, but what I'm saying is like I like projects that like where I can sense it's gonna be like you know, a problem where the where the client is going to be difficult to manage their expectations.

SPEAKER_03 46:33

I I stay away from all that. I don't I don't have the patience, I don't want to deal with any crazy people, yeah, or attitudes or egos. Like if I if I get a whiff just even for an instant that it's gonna cost me too much, you know, financially or like emotionally, I'm just like, no way. I'm like, oh sorry, I'm booked. Well, I I yeah, I have to give that a lot. You know, I I don't I used to love producing other artists. I hate it now. I absolutely hate it because the egos, the arguments, the drama, the you know, it's like, if you know more than me, why'd you hire me? You know, and then you end up that's exactly right. And then you and then you end up doing 95% of the work for not uh an equitable amount of money. And it's like, what am I paying this person to do that? Like, this is stupid. Like, I I just can't get into it. So um yeah, I I I hate it. I honestly hate it.

Joey Stuckey 47:28

I I still love producing records for people. I mean, all I want to do in my life is make records. I mean, basically. Uh, but I will say that you know, I've I've gotten pretty good at spotting problems uh and and and knowing when to sort of like not be the right person. But when you uh the the truth is, I think one of the things in our society now, and I'll I want to touch on this real quick and I'll let you go. I um I I say I'll let you go. We'll stop recording anyway. Uh so uh but but uh you know one of the things that happens today, and my wife in the medical practice faces this as well. Uh, you know, people think their Google search is as good as my 10,000 hours. And um, and I find that really annoying. That's not to say that I know everything, because I certainly do not. Uh, but you you know, people come in and and and have this sort of divorce from reality um expectation of I've got a thousand dollars and I want a thirty thousand dollar record, and you know, I've done some Googling and I think you should this is what we should do. And I'm like, well, look, if you want to hire me as your producer, then you need to believe that I have a better solution for them.

unknown 48:36

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:36

What is your better solution? They can do that Google search, they can print it out, and then they could find a uh a gigantic room with a gigantic hall with broken glass on the floor and banana peels, and they can run with scissors across it. That's my solution. I I it's just like the you know, I sometimes on threads I'll I'll I'll see what people are saying about the music industry, and then sometimes I'll respond and kind of give them because but there's so much stuff like how long should you spend on a mix? Like what if you have to ask that question, yeah, you you know, like how long should you spend on writing a song? Like, dude, just don't don't pollute my filter or thing, you know, and it's like you know, there's so many strange, completely unhinged uh things. And and obviously, look, not everybody has the experience, but when when people come to you and they want to pay you for to do what it is you do, and then they start arguing with you over no, it doesn't need a click, the drummer can play to it, you know, without a click. I'm like, no, nobody's gonna do that. Yeah, you know, I you know, it's just I am a click whore, I must admit. Yeah, I love clicks, they're great, you know. I I mean you need them if you want to do remixes and etc. But like I just I'm so over all that stuff. I just can't, unless somebody's gonna drop a fortune on me.

Joey Stuckey 50:12

Oh, yeah, that's different.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

I won't get out of bed, yeah, you know, to do it. Uh just having no interest. I love I love the uh I'd rather work on my stuff and then like I'm I'm you know, I'm fine with like doing my thing on other people's recordings. Sure. But but people ask me all the time, like, oh can you produce a song? And they they the what they offer uh money wise is is is ludicrous. It's crazy. It's like why would I do that? Like I yeah, I'd rather just sleep all day.

Joey Stuckey 50:39

Well, I mean, you know, I I I get this, uh it's fun because I I have a I have two rules that I give my so before you can book my time, uh you have to come in for the 30-minute consultation. And um, it's a free consultation, so you know I'll give you 30 minutes for free.

SPEAKER_03 50:56

But and you should say that look, I can't see. So during this project, you can't talk.

Joey Stuckey 51:03

That's what I would say. You are giving me new ideas, brother. I love this. This is this is like a free master class. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

Yeah, I don't know if we sound like tyrants, but you know, it's just when you've been doing it for this long and and built with every bullshit scenario, it's like I we have a lot of experience. I I have too, I'm too busy to listen to your I you know, I I I was on a panel in Denver some years ago, yeah. And somebody was asking, like, okay, well, what are some ways for artists to get ahead? I'm like, that's such a generalization, it depends on everybody's individuality. And one girl was like, you know, it's the the rent is too high here, and you know, I can't do a gig, and I can't this and that. And I'm like, and I tell her, I'm like, look, if you want to do it, there's a where there's a will, there's a way. Well, sir, that's easy for you to say, you know, you've done these things. I'm like, listen, I uh made my records, they got Grammy nominated, I had no insurance, no job, and no money, and I borrowed stuff, and this is the result. And she didn't say a word. Yeah, well, what can you say? Yeah, I mean, I truly believe if you really now there are always obstacles, and obviously money and whatever is always an obstacle, but then you just kind of and I don't believe in failure. I don't think failure is what people think it is. For me, failure is okay, now I have to approach it from a different angle. Yeah, you know, the only the only time you really truly fail is when you give up. And if you want to give up and it's not for you, that's fine. Preach. But but uh failure is not cracking the top 10, failure is not becoming uh a household name. You know, failure is either giving up or even when you give up, you know, the the answer really is you gotta just try from a different angle.

Joey Stuckey 53:01

That that is absolutely and I I mean this is I think part of your DNA and mine too, uh credited some of the the illness because I I just you know I just don't believe in giving up. I'm I'm I'm too dumb to quit. I mean, I just don't I don't I don't and I and you're and you're exactly right. I mean, when it doesn't work out one way, I I I was well, okay, we'll do it a different way. But I've always had to do that.

SPEAKER_03 53:24

Yeah, like I've given up on being a producer because I've done it and I fucking hate it. Well, you don't want to do it. Like I'm so sick of it. Yeah, you don't want to do it. Yeah. So that's not failure. That's just like I don't want to do this. Yeah, I'd rather I'd rather spend all my time making my tracks than giving my ideas to somebody else for cheap and then getting argued about you know mic placement or whatever.

Joey Stuckey 53:44

Well, no, it's true because well, I mean, the truth is I got in the music business to do my stuff anyway. And you know, I I got because I was trying to earn a living, you know, you you some sometimes you you have your head down doing the work and then you you realize a whole year's gone by and you haven't done anything of your stuff. You're like, oh my God, what have I been doing?

SPEAKER_03 54:01

Yeah, yeah. Exactly, exactly. Like time just flies, you know.

Joey Stuckey 54:05

It does. And so, I mean, but I I love, but you know, as a blind person, I mean, I I have backup plans to my backup plans.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

That's what I always say too.

Joey Stuckey 54:13

I mean, because because I'm like, you know, because I was like, okay, I'm not, I'm used to not being able to do things the way everybody else does it. I mean, I don't, I don't have, I don't have the option. So I'm used to thinking around it. And like, and so I tell people, it's like, we we're not we don't come up with problems, we come up with solutions.

SPEAKER_03 54:28

You know what's wild? When when the backup plan for the backup plan for the backup plan all fails.

Joey Stuckey 54:35

Yeah, then you're like, okay, now I'll those days, those days are few and far between, but they suck. Yeah, yeah, they do suck.

SPEAKER_03 54:42

Because you're like, it's like, well, if this doesn't happen, I'll have this. And then and then if that doesn't happen, I'll have this. And then next thing you know, you you know, you don't have uh work, you know, 10 months down the line or or something.

Joey Stuckey 54:55

Oh, it it's it's it really is. And you know the other the other thing that people have to realize is it I'm my my path's been a little bit different um you know than yours, obviously. We we're we we've done different things, but you know, I have I went the studio route because uh I thought as a blind person when I was a when I was a teenager and I was getting into music and I was actually healthy enough to like to do stuff, um, I was like, you know what, I I can't I can't get in a car and drive and I don't want my mama taking me. Well you could. Well, well not safely. Yeah, I could. That doesn't make it a good idea. But but so I was like, okay, so what how can I bring people to me in a way that doesn't seem strange? Like, you know, oh the studio, well, everybody has to come to a studio anyway. So, you know, that that was that was kind of one of my one of my plans. But anyway, I want to I want to end on this. Um I think you've got some strong views on this. I I know I do. Uh it's it's one of the biggest disruptors of our industry at the moment, and that's artificial intelligence. So from your perspective uh of of where you are with that music business degree brain um and everything, what what do you think about AI? What do you what do you what's your vision of what's gonna happen in our industry, you know, with this? Is it gonna be significant or what you know what's what's the deal?

SPEAKER_03 56:18

So overall, I have to ask these people, did you not watch Terminator? I I feel the same way. I mean, it's absurd. Now now within music, it's gonna destroy streaming, it's already doing that. Which we're not too upset about. No, we're not upset about that. Yeah. Um I've used it only to make stupid birthday songs for my friends. A reasonable usage? Right. I've experimented with it to see what kind of ideas it comes up with. It's I find it extremely boring. Yeah. And then after say a year, uh uh an hour of playing with it, I I feel like it flattens my creativity. Now, when I've experimented with it, it might come with an interesting chord change here and there, but it takes a lot of effort to construct something in it. So, but I like the process is so dumbed down to try to construct something, comparing it to the actual creative process, I'm like, I could have done this in five minutes, and yet to construct something took me an hour. No, that's not the right course, no, that's not a good course. No, and I'm just like, why am I wasting my time? You know, I I can see the the value in it if you make a demo and you need an arrangement on it and uh to show uh you know uh for for consideration to Beyonce or whatever, um, you know, rather than having to hire sessions and all that stuff. But but I it's not um you know, people often say, okay, it's not organic. Yeah, but you know, it's not about organic, it's about dollars. So from you know, thinking about it as a dollar thing, I I don't think I would ever consider using it to make arrangements because number one, anything you upload into their system, Suno, for example, they claim ownership of it. Right. And it becomes an ingredient. So I don't want my stuff to be ingredients, I don't want them to own anything of mine. I don't want to do it. Plus, you come up with better stuff when you and this is with musicians. Now, non-musicians are just hobbyists, they'll play with it, they'll be like, this is amazing. I hummed into it and I got an orchestral thing with 90 piece orchestra. Okay, whatever. You know, uh, what are you gonna do with that? What exactly are you gonna do with it? Like you still have to understand core changes, uh, you know, what's a good hook, what's uh a good melody, what's a good lyric. Whereas people who are casual hobbyists who don't play instruments or maybe don't play very well and aren't professional musicians still don't know what that is. So they'll they'll play it and then they'll upload it into Spotify and say, look what I did, and nobody's gonna care. I don't think. But for somebody like me, you know, it's kind of like I could see how it can get addictive, but if you're an alcoholic, you know, you want to make it a point to stay away from the alcohol because you know it is addictive and it'll mess you up. I I can't get into it. Like I think it's fun to make stupid uh songs, you know, for my friends or whatever for their birthdays, but um it it's it's not a good thing. It's just it's like uh you know, you could use a knife to cut vegetables, you could use a knife to stab people. You know, it it's kind of up to how it's being used and what the safeguards are. The the biggest problem is all the ingredients that go into it that are not given permission. So you'll see you know, John Lennon singing Oasis on YouTube. Who's monetizing off of that? Somebody's monetizing. Absolutely. Because the channel is monetizing uh whether the the back end is going to the publisher or not because they're pulling in people. Right. So, you know, this is kind of the thing with Rick Beato that I have a problem with. You know, he complains about uh I'm getting strikes on all my on these songs, and it's fair use. I don't think it's fair use at all because he's selling merch, he's creating a profile for himself, he's getting speaking engagements that he's getting paid for, and his channel's growing, and he's using all of this content to do it. You know, fair use. You know, if you use uh a song in the context of a classroom, that's you're working for a school, you're in a classroom with children, that's fair use to me. I agree. Because you're not sitting there selling your stuff in the classroom. That's right. He's selling stuff. So I don't, I don't and it's the same thing with all these guys who are on YouTube. No, I'm trying I'm doing interviews, I'm trying to teach people. No, you're building a business, you're pulling in people, you're growing your fan base, you're hoping it turns into something you can make money off of. And you are making money off of it, maybe not a lot, but you're using intellectual property to make so I don't agree with any of these people that they're like, oh, it's fair use, it's not fair use. What you do is you get a music supervisor and you try to get gratis licenses from the uh or or some sort of bulk thing from the majors, which I used to do a lot for Live Nation. I was their music, their um insomniac music supervisor for years. I cleared hundreds and hundreds of tracks from all the majors and the major indies, and that's what we would do. We would uh we would just get blanket licenses or for a small fee. Um because that might as well be fair use as well. Both are selling services. Yeah. So AI, you know, I I think um it can be used to move royalties and things like that uh in the back end, maybe better, and maybe in the medical profession, you know, it can help with detecting things better. Yeah, but but when I go into Chat GPT, it says my brother is my father. So, you know, mistakes will be made. And oh yeah, there's like a social network that AI bots have now. Have you seen this? I have not. Where they're communicating with each other and they're like, they're they're talking about their their owners, and they're like, and and they've developed their own language, and they're like, you know what, let's let's talk about this in private messages. Oh my god. Yeah, it's it's really messed up.

Joey Stuckey 1:03:16

That's scary.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:16

It's really messed up. It's just it's so it's it's all it is is driven by greed. Yeah. And and Terminator is Terminator in the music industry, uh, or what's left of it. Um it's gonna make things insipid. I mean, it'll it'll get better as the years progress. And you might be able to get interesting chord change here and there, but but you can't have AI artists because people will get bored with it. They want the personal connection with a real person. How did this person come? What do they look like? Who is this person? Where do they come from? Oh, they're from Iceland. Oh, cool. I want to do it. How interesting, right? Yeah, how interesting. So, and oh, I want to see this live, you know, but you can't. So I think it'll mess up the monetization part of it with streaming and music, but it'll get boring. Yeah, I find it very boring.

Joey Stuckey 1:04:11

Well, I I you know, I I dream that you are right because it will kill us all in the end, and the you know, on the other side.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:18

Oh, yeah, we're all gonna be murdered by a toaster. I mean, that's gonna be totally, totally.

Joey Stuckey 1:04:21

I mean, as soon as that toaster can get legs up the stairs, absolutely um, I'm gonna be electrocuted by my toaster. I just feel like coming. Totally. Um, and it's gonna hum like the Jaws theme as it comes for me. Um the but I I really do I I guess it I wish I didn't feel this way, but I honestly I'm offended by it. I mean, I just I'm offended by AI music. I I just you know, I guess what I'm saying is it's Starbucks, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:46

I mean, Starbucks costs it's twitch 20 cents to make those coffees and they charge eight bucks. That you know it's you know Disney World, you know.

Joey Stuckey 1:04:54

The the the CEO Sunos is I'm paraphrasing, but basically said, being a musician is too hard. I saw that.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:00

Yeah, he's a moron. I'm happy to say right now for everyone to hear he's a fucking moron.

Joey Stuckey 1:05:06

Okay, I I second your opinion of the case. He's not a musician.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:10

No musician would ever say that. Of course not. He's just a fucking moron. So uh let's hashtag it.

Joey Stuckey 1:05:18

That's gonna be the that's how we're gonna get this podcast go viral. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But the uh the uh the uh the thing that bothers me is you know if there is no creative process, uh, if there is no intention, if there is no struggle to to bring something new into the universe, you know, what is the value uh of the music that's being created? I mean, it's just you know, and the value is there's no overhead.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:43

I mean, it only just after that. The core mindset, no overhead. You can monetize, we'll just make it catchy and sound like Madonna or whatever it is, and people will fall for it, and then we'll make what we can make when we can make it, and then we'll move on to the next thing and dispose of that. And you know, it's it's like it's Pop formula. It's like, oh, yes, uh so and so is too old now.

Joey Stuckey 1:06:04

These corporations will use you up and throw you away. I mean, that's and you know, Megan Trainer and Adele both had to be hospitalized for exhaustion several years ago. I mean it's terrible.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

Yeah, I mean, these are people, they treat them like commodities, and um and then you know, Adele, you know, they made fun of her weight, and it's like, who cares about her weight? Listen to that voice, man. I know I you know, I mean, Skyfall. I still get I get chills just just thinking about that song. It's pretty awesome. It's pretty awesome.

Joey Stuckey 1:06:34

I mean, her whole vibe is so cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:36

Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, it it's it's it's a horrible business, uh, what's left of it. When and what it is, is it's a branding business now, you know, yeah, creating this. But Noel Gallagher said it the best. He said, uh, he's like, you know, back in my day when there were bands, they were we were the mainstream, but nobody wants to deal with a bunch of guys in the band now who are drunk on a Tuesday. They want guys, you know, they want guys like Harry Stiles, where they say, sing this, go here, wear that dress, and shut it.

Joey Stuckey 1:07:11

Well, you and I definitely don't fit that mold.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:14

No, no, I I can't I can't get into that.

Joey Stuckey 1:07:16

It's just it has been, I mean, this this has been a true privilege to spend this amount of time with you and um and to talk about all these things. And um, I think that um, you know, I I just you know, I I think that at the end of the day, uh if if we want to leave, I'd love to let you have the last word, but I think the the thought that we've uh come back with from all of our discussion today is the work is its own reward and uh and and that uh it's it's worth doing and it because it's it's it's it's important not only for our spiritual well-being, but for for for others to to have the access to art. Um and uh so I think I I really I I believe that, and that's what keeps me going, even when I think, wow, this is a crazy business. And uh and did I really just not make a bunch of money yesterday?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:05

Yeah, everyone, everyone is not a star. That's right. Everyone pretends. I'd just say, not everyone pretends. I mean, we don't pretend, we are what we are, but like you know, it's just don't pretend and just do it your way and do, you know, network and make the best. It's like when I tell when people ask me if they should submit to the Grammys, I said, absolutely. You know, it's it's a tool. If you're serious about your your work, you'll take every audition, you'll take every interview, and you'll do what you can to move forward because you never know what you may get out of it, whether it aligns or not. You know, it's it's just if you're serious about it, just do it. But you just gotta network and you gotta do the best work you can and don't pretend and don't spend a fortune because there's some people who go completely nuts, you know. Oh, yeah, I know those people. Well, yeah, yeah. And then and then they you know, you talk to them after the process, and they're literally some of them crying on the phone. It's like, well, what are you crying about? I just spent $200,000. Yeah, and they're like, Well, I didn't spend all this money, and I and that guy won, and or that girl won, and I didn't. I'm like, what do you mean? And well, I thought I would why did you think that? Well, I just thought it's a process you don't control. That's right. What were you thinking?

Joey Stuckey 1:09:23

Yeah, yeah. You gotta you know do it, you know. I have made so the the joy of the Grammy submissions. Uh I have found so much cool music that I didn't know about.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:35

Oh, yeah. There are some stuff, man. There, some orchestral things and jazz things, and um it's interesting because the when they go to our circle, the majority of it is quite good. Yeah. Like, you know, some great children's things, but like the orchestral, um, and just some really innovative. I mean, there's some stuff that I've I've bought that I've had from our friends, you know. Yeah, me too. Um now there's a few little there are a few little things here and there that are just kind of like you really have no chance. But yeah, you you can't say anything, you have to be encouraging and say, it's not my cup of tea or whatever. Yeah. Um but and then of course there's the this faction of people who turned fakery into a business model, right? And somehow get rewarded for it, and then you're just like you're like really why am I doing this? You know, but um, but yeah, there's a lot of really, really impressive and innovative electronic stuff, and oh yeah, it's it's really impressive.

Joey Stuckey 1:10:46

I mean, there's there's stuff, especially the some of the jazz stuff, it just blows my mind. Like, there's there's albums I I've I bought so many albums, the especially the jazz stuff that people are sending to me. I was like, oh my gosh, this is so good. And then you know, you get to meet them sometimes, and then like I'm getting ready to head back to LA um to do some recording and and uh with some friends, and uh I've we're gonna play a show at the whiskey while we're there. And all all these people that I've have sent me their music over the years, I'm I'm hitting them up, and and most of them are coming out to the show. So, you know, it's just it's it's you get to meet make friends too, which is nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:20

Yeah, there are there are a lot of epic time wasters, unfortunately.

Joey Stuckey 1:11:25

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:25

Um, but that's that's to be expected, and a lot of people who are basically every year trying to throw something against the wall see that sticks. Yep. You know, the the thing that too many people don't realize is that um the nomination and the award, first of all, they're the same thing, really. It's the same thing. The only thing is what they also are is that they are a spotlight on what you've done up to that point.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:59

So if you don't have a career, or you just had a lot of money and you came out of nowhere and are just like paying people to do the work and you know, just aligning with what the perceived uh branded uh initiative is of the organization with regard to diversity and all that stuff, and you get rewarded for, you know, and people can see through that. So the award is only as valuable as the person who gets it. It's not the other way around. The person brings the value to the award.

Joey Stuckey 1:12:33

That is exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:35

I think that's a beautiful way to say that. Well, too many people think that it's the other way around. Where it's like, I'll get it, and then I won't have to, you know, uh I don't have to work anymore. Have my crappy job, and I'll be on the cover of Rolling Stone, and money will fall from the sky. Yeah. You know, that happens to people who are on the telecast, and that's why they're on the telecast because they bring value to the show and the award. So they're already monetizing, but that does not happen unless you have a career to show for. And there are people who will win or get nominated, and then they're like, I don't get it, I won. Like, why am I not on the cover of everything? Well, because what do you have to show for it? Okay, you have a few albums, but what's the career? Like, what is the value? And then they'll spend time trying to win another one, thinking, okay, if I win two, maybe that'll do it. And then that doesn't do it. Yeah. And they'll keep pandering to the voters and colluding them and stacking them, and you know, it's it's really it's it's pretty sad to watch. But you know, as long as you stay do what you do your way in your unique way, and like you have a long list of credits. You have a lot of interesting things. So when it aligns for you, it's gonna help you. It's gonna give you new opportunities because you already have the career. But that's something people just and that's the thing. They don't want to do the work, they want the shortcuts, they want to hire the bots, they want to hire, you know, inflate the Instagram numbers, the Facebook numbers, blah, blah, blah.

Joey Stuckey 1:14:10

I don't understand the pleasure you get from that.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:13

Like, I have no Well, because their grandmother looks at it and says, Wow, you're a star. But like the guy at Paramount who's hiring or the music supervisor for Marvel is gonna not even give it a second look or a first look. Because it's like, why would I, you know, consider this?

Joey Stuckey 1:14:30

Yeah. You know, so I I just it just it just perplexes me. Like, you know, the the stardom really is is not. I mean, the only thing that theoretically is good that comes from that is the ability to to work at a high the highest level. Because that's all I want to do is the work. I mean, I just want to do the work, you know. And everybody else is like, doesn't want to do the work. I mean, I say everybody, that's not fair, but but a lot of people, you know, have this sort of disconnect where you know the the the fame is sort of the goal, and and you know, my my I sort of flip that around and say, well, what will this exposure give me the opportunity to do? Like, you know, that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:11

But and and and they forget that in a year's time someone will take that place. Absolutely, absolutely. Why not go on the road and tore your ass off as the guy holding that category for the gear and build something? Yeah, and they don't because they're like, uh, I don't want to, I don't know, I'll just hire some once. Well, what was the point of doing it then? Like, I don't understand, you know. So so, but this is this is this is the difference between professionals and faux professionals or or kind of you know hobbyists kind of thing.

Joey Stuckey 1:15:43

Eric, why why aren't you and I in charge of the world? We can solve all these problems so fast.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:48

I would destroy the earth if I was in charge of the world. I think I think humans need to be a lot of people. Are you too messy? No, I'm I'm actually very, very, you know, disappointed with that, but I just think humans need to disappear. Give it back to the animals. Go back to the animals.

Joey Stuckey 1:16:03

Well, my cat is pretty smart.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:04

I have to say, Yeah, I mean we polluted the earth, and you know, most most people are born and all they do is pollute and you know, we pollute and we uh we pollute the earth from the moment we're born.

Joey Stuckey 1:16:15

That's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:16

You know, so some people, you know, I mean it it's it's uh I always say you gotta do something, you know, um rather than just polluting the earth and with diapers and etc.

Joey Stuckey 1:16:29

Oh, I I I just I was just always naked as a child. I didn't use diapers at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:33

Yeah, I I think most people should uh should be that way now.

Joey Stuckey 1:16:38

I kid, I I'm I'm afraid my parents would have probably assisted on the diaper. Uh but my well, my wife uh my wife reminds me on a regular basis that because I can't see doesn't mean people can't see me. So I so she she uh encourages me to stay clothed and not to roll my eyes. And I will on that note, on that note, I shall I shall give you back your the rest of your uh evening. But what a privilege, what a pleasure to talk with a real artist and someone that I have much admired for so many years. And it's I am privileged to call you friend. I really am, and I appreciate it. I appreciate it too. And I'm listening my birthday's in May, I'm expecting one of those AI videos.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:24

Oh yeah, okay.

Joey Stuckey 1:17:25

What date is it? May 29th. Same as JFK. So I was, you know, that's and Charles II, apparently. So there you go. Uh and and and the and the more demented it is, the better I'll like it. So you you know, whatever you can. Well, you can count always count on me being demented. I I appreciate it, my brother. Thank you for thank you for your time today. You are you are a true inspiration. Thanks for having me, man.