Joey Stuckey 0:00

Welcome to the Stuck on Sound Podcast. As always, we bring you interesting people to learn from and be inspired by. And uh we we think of our podcast is for nerds by nerds. And today I have my good friend, Lucy Kalantari, and she is absolutely fabulous in so many ways, and you're gonna find out all about them right now. Lucy, thanks for coming on. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

Oh, you're so kind. Thank you so much for having me, Joey. How's it going?

Joey Stuckey 0:27

Oh, listen, I can't complain, my friend. I really cannot. I mean, I I mean I guess I could, but I but but you know, I'll tell you, my wife, my wife says the more I complain, the more beatings there are. So there has to, we have to stay, we have to stay positive.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Um curve the complaints, got it. Absolutely.

Joey Stuckey 0:43

She she manages expectations, is what she does. She but she actually, you know, we've been married uh 23 years of this this year. Oh wonderful.

SPEAKER_05 0:51

Congratulations.

Joey Stuckey 0:52

Yeah, yeah. Thank you. And uh the the the one thing when we were on uh I was on tour in Hawaii uh in 2004, and uh I wanted to swim with the dolphins, and um so Jen Jennifer wasn't really interested in doing that. She said, Oh, you can do it, that's fine. And of course, you know, as a blind person, I um I realized that trying to swim with a bunch of other people and me not be able to see where I was going was not really an optimal situation. So I said, look, all I want to do is pet the dolphin, feed him some fish, stay in the shallows, and you you tell me about the dolphin, and I'll pay him my 300 bucks or whatever. And uh the the young lady that was the dolphin trainer, um, my wife was reading a magazine, not paying any attention, and I asked her, I said, How do you, you know, how do you get the dolphin to you know do what you want and and and not be cruel or whatever? And she said, Oh, well, when we uh when the dolphin does what we want, we we reward it, and when he doesn't, we ignore the undesirable behavior. And my wife heard that, and so now when when I misbehave, she ignores me when I'm gonna get fished. So that's how it goes.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Learn from the dolphins, yeah.

Joey Stuckey 1:59

Yeah, I mean, you know, that's just it. I speaking, I want to, I want to, I want to talk about so many things with you, you know. I always want to uh I've we've known each other for quite some time and and had a chance to to visit, but you know, oftentimes we're running around like crazy people during Grammy Week, and we, you know, uh so there's so many things that I don't know about you that I want to share with people. And I always like to start with the origin story because I think it's so fascinating. So how did you decide, hey, I'm gonna do music for a living? Like what what was that journey like and when did you start?

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Oh, oh man, that's a I don't I don't know. Um it's one of those things where where music has always been part of my life, you know, since I was itty bitty, I I only remember having just sound in my head. Just hearing, just always hearing music, always hearing sound, singing, um, making stuff up on the fly. Um and it was, I guess, uh when I was living, I was a little girl in Dominic Republic, and um I just started really playing more piano and and doing more things, like it just sort of becoming something more concrete rather than this abstract thing. And um yeah, when it was time to go, I guess, to college, I was just like, this is what I'm doing, duh. Like there was just like no, like I had no other concept of like, what do you want to do? It's just like, well, music, of course.

SPEAKER_04 3:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

And so I don't know if that makes so it's like I don't think there's like a beginning or an end. It was just always there, and it's just like it was just m waiting for me to say it out loud, you know?

Joey Stuckey 3:38

Yeah, no, that makes total sense to me because um, well, as a blind person, I mean, you know, sound is that way for me in the sense that I've always been a bit obsessed with it and um uh always interested in how things sound and why they sound the way they sound and and that kind of thing. And so I I get that. I I didn't really know that I wanted to be a musician for a while because uh both my parents were music, it was a huge part of our our household, sounds like it was yours as well. And um, you know, it was always it was always there for comfort and for and for joy and for celebration and that sort of thing. But uh my early life was as a brain tumor survivor was really focused on you know survival. So I didn't really have a vision of you know what I wanted to do later. But it is interesting that you know it sounds like both of us have had a similar journey in the sense that uh I've never actually had another job besides doing audio or music. That's that's since I was old enough to get paid, that's what I've done.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

That's amazing. I can't say it was like that in entirely, but it was just like um, because I did do many other things even after studying um music, like I did web development for a while for some reason. And I did like just other things that find their way, you know, help me pay the bills and things. But somehow, as these things go, because nothing is linear, right? All of these odd jobs that I would do suddenly played a role in my music career. So, like, say for example, the web development stuff, like you know, back in the day we we build our own websites right using HTML and doing all these things, and it turned out that of course, like duh, I'm building my own um site and my own stuff to promote my music and do these other things, and so they all kind of helped each other. You know, I had to do some databases um for another company, and so voila, that database helped me when I was working in post-production to help them organize their stuff. So it's just like I don't know, one thing kind of leads you to another, and and um because things aren't linear, you just never know where that road is going to take you.

Joey Stuckey 5:47

Yeah, and you know what's interesting to me, and and and I guess this is sort of my next question phrased in a in a conversational way, but the um, you know, I I always think of you as an artist for some reason, and so and I know that you obviously are one, but uh recently I know, and I don't know if this is a recent development or you've always done it, but you've been doing a lot of producing as well. So, I mean, when when you went to school, what was your what was your thought there? Like what were you did you study composition or what was your initial thought of how you would interact in the business?

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Um, I did study composition and I studied production. Um we had a pretty unique and interesting program at the time uh that was called Studio Composition. Nice. So um so there was production involved with with uh you know refining your composing skills and all the music skills that comes with that. So um I really took to the studio right away. I I really it was you know out of necessity and and just sort of like curiosity and me wanting to do more, so sneaking into the music building, you know, late at night, trying to make sure that the that the security wouldn't catch me when I was in the studio, so that you know they they like do a a walk by, and if you stay really quiet when they would walk by, then they would just like walk by the studio and then you would just resume and stay there. Oh yeah, I remember those nights, it was so so great. And then it turned out that because I was so like immersed in it, like I didn't think much of it. I didn't think like I am going to be an engineer. It's just like this is what I need to do to make the music and capture the ideas that I have in my head. And then I started helping other people with their stuff and recording recitals and um and then uh eventually the last year, my senior year in college, I became the chief engineer for all of the studios. And that was not what I expected. I often think about that, especially in recent times, how um, you know, had he not had the the the professor not done that, I wonder how different I would have viewed myself. Because I didn't see myself as like, you know, the best or anything like that, you know, and I I certainly still don't. But like at at the studio and at the time he just had so much it was just such a such a nod of just like and you know, I was one of what two women, you know, of like and I'm talking of the entire program at that point who did a lot of studio work. So like um, so it was just really cool to think of that because I remember that being such a pivotal moment for me. It's like, oh, I can do this. Yeah, yeah. Like it never, you know, again, like it never I just thought it was like as a necessity, and and and so here I am. So I did um I didn't consistently after after college, I wasn't um a full-time engineer all the time, it was just sort of in and out, again, kind of weaving different jobs. I worked in post-production for a long time, and um, and I would toggle between admin and um some audio work and composition and stuff. So it's like it was so it was pretty wacky, but again, like uh all those things supported me in different ways, where today I get to like have this kind of bird eye view of all the different things, all the different ways those different jobs can have made my career as it is today.

Joey Stuckey 9:15

Yeah, yeah, and that it's it's true because the you just never know where things are gonna take you, but it is even even for someone, and we want to we're gonna talk about this in more detail in a moment, but you know, someone who has the kind of of a wonderful track record you've got with some Grammys here, and and and which is uh you know an insanely difficult thing to accomplish. Um and and you know, it's it still is kind of a gig economy in the sense that you know if you want to do new music and audio full time, you do have to wear a lot of different hats. I mean, it it really is, you know, it's as I have never been able to um fully support one habit or the other. I've had to sort of do you know multiple things to to make to make it all work. And and the and I, you know, I I've gotten to the studio business partly because it's my natural habitat, as it were. And uh and but also because as a blind person, you know, with the initial challenge before I had people that I could employ, before I was married, the challenge for me was how do I get to the gig as a blind person, you know, there was no Uber. This is this is many, many years ago. Um so it was I was like, oh, I need people to come to me and them not think it's odd. So I'll I'll have a studio, they have to come to me anyway. That's normal. So that's kind of you know I love that. That was the that was the master plan. Um and and one of the problems I have, and I don't know if you face something similar to this at all, but one of the problems I have is that uh you you you you get in the production mode of being someone's producer and their engineer, and you you know, you're slamming these you know these projects out, and you look back and then you go, oh my god, it's been nine months since I've done any of my own music. Like I got this business to be an artist, and like there's you know, the the studio the the producer pays for my artist habit. So it's like you know, um, but it it's funny how time just like rushes by when you get in that mode of does of cranking things out. Do you I mean I guess you know the the thing that interests interests me with different people, um I always wonder how how different or how similar we all are. So you are uh and I think this is an interesting thing we should we should focus on. You were one of two one of two women in your program. Um and you know, I'm used to that kind of uh lopsided numbers because typically I'm the only blind person in a program or something like that. Um so I I have been there in that in and I think you talking about that moment of encouragement where your professionals say, hey, this is this is uh something that you need to do. Um I believe you can do it and and you're going to do it, and so yeah, you know, here you go, here's the keys, get going. Um but do you do you also as a producer do you suffer from the horrible affliction of microphone lust? Because I have a bit of a problem and may need intervention.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

That is hilarious. There was a time, actually, not very long ago, where I was doing a lot of um shopping. And like, and my son was just like, Why do you need more microphones, mom? I'm just like, I have a gap and I need to fill the gap. Absolutely. And like, I mean, it's not I I like to consider myself, we've always kind of went a little high, but like, you know, I like to consider myself somewhat practical. So like I think I have a pretty I have a pretty good, you know, gate of things. It's not, it's not totally out of control, but you know, that nothing says I'm not done yet. I also just moved into my new studio. Oh, nice. Yes. Um, so up until now, I have been working out of closets. And like, you know, when I lived in Brooklyn, I had one of my big closet actually like um set with a microphone and stuff. Like, my husband actually helped me um set a uh little microphone input so it would go through the walls so that I wouldn't have to run it like under the door or anything like that. Yeah, yeah. So um we did all these things, but man, I'm I'm so curious with what the landlady thought. Like after this, she's like, what is this thing that she left here? What are you doing? Uh she was very Brooklyn. And then like um, and you know, but it was so funny, you know, and then I moved to we bought a house upstate, and then so there's more space. Um and this one I took a uh spare bedroom, and then you know, a pretty nice closet. And that one I could I I treated acoustically and recorded stuff, and so I recorded two Grammy nominated albums in this in this house, like I love it, and and that was just you know from my closets and my setup again, like it's acoustically treated and all that. And then so in the meantime, I was also building my studio in the basement, which had gotten flooded, all this stuff. So I had to do all these these treatment things. So now finally, um, just at the end of 2025 and beginning of 2026, I finally started moving in and just started working. I don't even have furniture yet right now, Joey. I have just my seat, and occasionally, like when I have like okay, I have to track bass, I had to track uh drummer, I'm like, okay, we got it. Here's a chair, here's a thing for you. Uh, this is all we got, and that's amazing shelf. But you know, I'm working today. So that said, going back to your original question about the microphones.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

Well, now, you know, we have some vacancy, we got some more space.

Joey Stuckey 14:50

So absolutely, you need to fill that space. My my wife is so kind to me when it comes to my problem with microphones and also guitars. I mean, it's uh, you know, uh, I've got a bit of that collector spirit in my heart. To be honest with you, and I'm I I wonder if I'll ever get a chance to tell her in person, but uh, a big Sylvia Massey fan, and I'm my goal is to have more microphones than Sylvia Massey. That's just like when I die, I want that on my tombstone. I had more microphones than Sylvia Massey. Um so, but I mean, but in reality, I mean, you know, for because I am such a nerd and and a technical uh person and also uh you know a spiritual person at the same time, which is why I love what we do. I think it's it's the marriage of both those things. But but um, you know, the microphones are our ear replacements, you know, and and uh there are times where you know a $75 microphone is what you want, and sometimes when a $10,000 microphone is what you want. And it's you know, it's it it's I think it's all about for me, you know, it's all about getting the sound I want the quickest, and um, and and and you know what what is it gonna take me to do that. But um, but I do, I like I said, I've got a bit of a problem. Um I remember we were I was assisting someone as an engineer um in Chicago, and they said to me, uh this Royer ribbon mic, uh the 122, which is uh uh you know has has phantom power, um, they said it's it's as good or better than the 121. I was like, I I highly doubt that. And I was like, I'll be the judge of that. And so uh we started using it, and I was like, okay, I'm convinced. And uh I was so I just kept going on and on and on about this microphone, how great it was. And so finally my wife came back and said, You can stop talking about it. I just ordered you one, so it's you're you're all good.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Wow! That's amazing.

Joey Stuckey 16:39

She is all I mean, you know, the only thing that her her only fetish is shoes, and uh so I support that. Um, and she supports the microphone and the guitars, and she never has said to me, uh, which I find really impressive, you you do not need another guitar. You do not need another microphone. She has never said that to me. And I I one of the many reasons I love her. So if you ever need someone to encourage you, I'll give you my wife's number and you can say, Hey, Jen, do I need this telefunken? And you she'll say, Absolutely, you you need one.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

So I love that. I think my most valued, I think, um, microphone that I love so much so dearly is my Lawson. Um it's a tube mic. And and what's fun about it is when I pair it with the LA 610, it's very classic sounding, but then when I switch it over and use it with the with my focus right mic pre, it's a ISA 110. Oh yeah. You get this more modern thing, so it's like the same microphone, and it but it has like these beautiful, these two distinctive tones from my setup that I'm like, what do I want today? You know, absolutely. And I love that that we couldn't do that.

Joey Stuckey 17:48

Well, I I feel I'm like a bad scientist. Like I'm I'm picking mics and amps and guitars and you know, whatever, you know. But I would I by the way, I love the LA610. That's a great, that's a great pre. I got two of those suckers. Um the um the the thing that I I guess what's interesting to me is like, do you have a because like I said, you're you know, you're you're producing records, you're engineering records, you're you're you have your own artistry. So what what is it that inspires you to make your art? Um and how many instruments do you play? Because I know you play some piano, but I also have heard some mighty funny ukulele plays. So or funkaleley as you called it.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Funkaleley, yeah. It's so fun. Um, yeah, I play ukulele. I don't play, um, I mean, you didn't ask me what I don't play, so I guess I shouldn't answer that, right? Well, you can. I play I play ukulele. The thing is, like, because there's a little bit of a gap for me in the guitar world, I tend to get really creative with the ukulele. I'm just like, well, you know, I don't do that, but what if I run the ukulele through this and then going and then suddenly I'll have like all these textures that are pretty unusual. Now, granted, I I did recently finally get my guitar and I've been playing a little bit and like here's some electric guitar. I'm just like thing is my fingers are so little that like every time I would I would play guitar when I was in high school and things, I would get so discouraged. I'm like, oh I don't wanna. But then the ukulele, uh I loved it so so much with its bright sound, and also like you know, because it's so small, my fingers were were really, you know, took to it. So so anyway, um, yeah, so piano, ukulele, singing, of course. And then the rest I start dabbling, right? So I'll dabble with like cajon, you know, of course, any percussion that I have. Um and uh what else? I used to play flute. I should dabble.

Joey Stuckey 19:44

You should pull that out. You should get the flute out. Um yeah, I I have a I have a um professor of mine that was very instrumental in my um early development, and you know, he was very encouraging and helpful and supportive. And and he, you know, he he he's a I mean he has he has a doctorate in flute and he's insane. He's just he's so good. And you know, a doctorate does not make one necessarily a good musician, because I I know some doctorates that really can't play, but the uh but he is just crazy good. And you know, his flute's like a $30,000 flute. I mean, yeah, it's like yeah, it's it's but he actually deserves it. I mean it's like so good. Uh I mean his tone is just ridiculous. It's like you're like, is this real? Like, you know, it's like, you know, are you sure this wasn't like someone get melodyne on this thing? What's that? I mean, it's it's it's just it's just so he's he's just incredible. And and uh he lives in Iowa, but he really is an incredible player. So I'm a big big flute fan, you know. There's a lot of amazing um flute out there. So I mean, when you when you create your music, I mean, does it how how much of it is like all you and then how many people do you have to bring in, or does that just vary?

SPEAKER_03 20:51

Yeah, that totally varies. Um, for my Lucy Calentarian, the Jazz Cats band stuff, it's all we're six musicians, we're a sex that. So uh my son, my son plays cello, and he's so great, by the way, having a live-in cellist. So, like, you know, like he's gonna come down in like an hour, we're gonna record some cello for something. That's a good thing. And how old is he right now? He is 13 now. He's been playing.

Joey Stuckey 21:14

Okay, so he's he's flea labor. Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03 21:16

He he's been working since he's been playing cello since he was three, so he's been playing for 10 years. Yeah, he had a tiny cello. And um, yeah, so I've I've literally seen him and heard him grow up. I captured sound. He's on so many recordings over the years that it's like been really fascinating to capture his growing sound.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

So um anyway, okay, and then you know, so of course with the jazz cats I got all of my different musicians, drums, um, upright bass and and clarinet and trumpet, and of course uh me on ukulele and voice, and then of oh, I guess that's another instrument I sing. Um, and then uh and you know, the the last uh and then piano, of course. So Occasionally there's piano. I don't always go lean so far with the piano on on um my jazz cat stuff since I don't travel with a keyboard because then it like makes the the Oh it makes it ridiculous. So um but you know I don't I also don't shy away with it. It's just like you need no what this needs? A piano. So okay. Um but in for the most part I let I want the song to dictate, you know, like the I feel like the these songs are a living entity. Right. You know, all of these things for me, um, so I I still find like my role as an engineer, like I'm a producer first, okay. Engineer second, you know, so like I I love like capturing sound, capturing it's just like everything I do is is for the sake of to make this song alive, you know, so like that is tantamount to everything. That's like the the number one thing. So so I will do everything in my power to make it beautiful and wonderful and great. So like that that's how I see it. So like you know, if something needs, you know, a little sprinkle here, let's do that. If it needs the cello, if it needs this, that, or the other. So, so um also it depends on the artist. So, like I work with many different artists who um, you know, depending on their budgets as well, like if they can hire other musicians, and I always encourage that, of course. So we'll do a combo maybe of like, you know, programmed drums and you know, a real you know, guitar player or something like that. Right. So like you know, so it all depends. Everything is quite fluid based on budget, on needs, on sound, and making sure that the the you know song comes alive. We gotta honor the song.

Joey Stuckey 23:45

And you're right, the song is is the top priority. I mean, that's that's always gotta be. It's interesting because one of the keynotes that I give um uh for the past several years is something called how to avoid sound blindness or return to critical listening. And the it's a kind of a mouthful to say, but it's but but really what it is is um you shouldn't be trapped into thinking you have to do anything. Like know what you've got first before you start making decisions. You know, some people think, oh, well, if I don't put 10k boost on the top snare head, it's not a real snare, or if I you know, there's all these things, or oh, if I don't quantize everything, you know, that's you know, everything's gotta be time aligned, or you know, and I I my my position is before we had all these lovely tools, there are a lot of wonderful records that were made. Um if you if you need if you need that stuff, that's fine, that's great. Um, but if you if you don't, you may not. You need to listen to what you got first. And I think you know, people have kind of gotten to this trick of looking at graphs and looking at meters and looking at waveforms and making visual decisions for audio. Um and and I think you know, I obviously cannot do that. Um, and I'm totally jealous of people that can, but I just think that there's also power in you know letting your ear pick what's gonna happen next. And that's really it sounds like that's your that's that sounds like you're you're in that same thought of that's one 100%.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

In fact, um, so one of the things like I I don't like being in a box, right? Like I don't like feeling so um you know so rigid about certain things. I mean we need we need boundaries, right, to kind of help us stay focused, but also like again, honor the song and like and so my my studio is called Joy Sound Lab. Oh, I love it. And and the you know, I focus on children's music and children's media, and the idea is to come in with a sense of play and with like a laboratory, you come in experimenting, right? So I'm experimenting with sound, experimenting with different things. Ooh, what if you do? Those are my favorite words, is like if you start with what if dot dot dot. Like what if I you know, and that's that that kind of curiosity, that kind of thing is what feeds the next thing, which feeds the next thing. Next thing you know, you have a huge song. And it's just like, but it comes from there, from honoring the sound and just sort of letting curiosity and that playfulness lead the way.

Joey Stuckey 26:05

That is always important, I think, with any art is to keep that curiosity and and to keep that. And I think I think the other thing is, you know, giving yourself permission to do something that's not traditional or outside the norm. You know, people look at you like you're crazy, like why why would you do that? Well, I mean, you know, a lot of neat sounds have have come out of people doing weird stuff. I mean, you know.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

Yeah, like the ukulele thing, you know, just like, you know, oh, they can put the ukulele through discepts. Whatever. I'm rock and roll, dude.

Joey Stuckey 26:37

That's right. That's what there's I think your next album should be death metal ukulele. You should just, you know, and I you know it's a I I but do you ever feel because you know you've you've uh you've been you've got these wonderful um wonderful accolades to to um to recognize your hard work with with the Grammys, and I think that's absolutely amazing and thank you and such a and such a privilege. And um do you it sounds like you have chosen you know to to to focus, as you said, on on sort of children's music. Do you do you like to I mean do you consider that like a uh any kind of barrier? I mean, do you do you always focus on children's music or do you get outside of that? Or what's how how does that work? I mean, is it because as a genre, I mean, it's you know, I'm I don't have children, so I don't I don't get a chance to see what's going on in that in that genre very often. You know, what are what are the what kind of what are the what are the rules for making a living doing that? I mean, how does that work? Because, you know, I you probably don't do radio campaigns, or or I guess I assume not. I mean, I don't know. That's that how does that work from a marketing standpoint?

SPEAKER_03 27:44

I mean, it's uh it's such an interesting and very niche genre. And like, and what's most interesting about it from like marketing and you know, fans perspective is that your fans grow out of your music because they're kids. Oh, that's terrible. So it just like, but then they remember remember you fondly, you know, so like you have to constantly be engaging in some way or another, but also like you know, music lives on, which is an amazing thing. So then the next generation, you know, picks it up. So um I've been I'm so passionate about children's music and children's media. Um, there's something about it, you know, like I did a lot of alt rock and and you know, music for adults for a very long time for most of my life. Uh is that true now? How old am I? Huh? Most would that be most? Yeah, still most. And then um, but then like when I switched over, now I did do dabbling in post-production. I wrote some stuff for like for some cartoon things, and and that's like it was joyful. Like I grew up playing, you know, watching a lot of cartoons and all these things, and even in my adult life, I watched a lot of cartoons. Like, there's and and I also like owned a lot of children's books. This is before my son was born. So that was already a thing, and I don't know why, Joey, till the like, why is it that I didn't even just try then? But it's just like I'm serious, I gotta do this adult customer music, you know, burning on the piano. And then I started doing kids' music, and I'm like, this is the best thing ever. What have I been doing all my life? And like it just fit like a glove. Like uh, I mean, uh, if you you know, I'm like a walking cartoon, people just are losing losing here. So it's just you know, it all just made sense. The moment I stepped, I took one step there. I'm like, oh, I'm home. This is where I should be. So you know, and I started writing for Dora, um, the the cartoon. They did a relaunch a few years ago, and like again, it's just the cartoons and like audio and all this stuff, and and that's that's where it feels really great. It feels so at home to me.

Joey Stuckey 29:57

Well, you know, I'll tell you, it's probably the most important market there is because if you give children, I you know, as a really sick child uh that almost died a bunch of times, I mean, you know, the the affirmational, the inspirational, the joyful were all very important things to be surrounded by. And um, and and kids, you know, are smarter than people give them credit for. Um, and you know, to to start their life with something accessible and positive and joyful is really important. And so, I mean, to me, that seems like an amazing honor and and and responsibility to to do that, to have that, to, to have that first that first chance at a young mind, you know. And and and that, I think that's amazing. And I'm I have to tell you that um, you know, I'm 40-something, that's all we needed to say. And um I I still love Sesame Street, and uh and I still have um some of my early childhood albums. I you know they're vinyl, so I don't really play them because I don't want to ruin them, but I was surprised to find that my favorite children's album of all time, which is called Bert and Ernie Sing Along, uh, is on iTunes and I have it on my phone. Oh I love that. And when there are days that I don't feel well, um uh because I have some chronic issues from the brain tumor, but uh there are days that I go to work and go, oh my god, I'm just gonna go humblily down. And so you put that album out. I put that on, my friend. I'm still playing that record. I'm still playing that record.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

Oh my gosh, that that song, isn't that does that album have the song the L song? Like uh It does La La La La Light post.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

That's right, that's right. A lump in my opening is another lovely line. Yeah. Uh, so good. Yeah, la la la la linoleum. That's what Bert sings.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

It's so good. See, so like, and this is the the beauty about children's music. It's just like, yes, see, remember how I said like they remember you fondly?

SPEAKER_04 32:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 32:01

This is the imprint this music leaves. Yes. So like you're doing this thing, like so all these musicians and and composers for for kids media and kids music, it's just like you're you're leaving an imprint and you're helping shape the minds of our future leaders and our future, you know. So it's just like it's a huge responsibility. It is a beautiful responsibility. And um, and so I love that I get to to do that and I get to do this for a living and and really help other artists, you know, as I produce other records for for other artists, you know, I get to help them lift their voices uh for our kids, you know.

Joey Stuckey 32:40

I think that's really incredible. Now, now do you I mean again, see, this is such a different you know field than I'm in. Um I mean I I would do children's music if if someone asked me to. I mean, I just it just hadn't, you know, just hadn't been asked. But um the uh I guess the question is like do you do you get a chance to tour and go perform for kids? I know you did a really cool exhibit um uh in in audio for and I want to talk about that uh for kids, but do you get a chance to like perform for them or how does that work? Because I do have a bit of a performing bug that I get restless if I if it's been too long since I've been on stage.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

I know it gets so wacky, right? Um but yes, yes. Um actually, where did we play? We did um so my band is called Lucy Collentarian the Jazz Cats. So when I'm not producing other records, like I'm I'm on tour with my cats or picking up my son from school. And then um No, I still have to do that anyway, whether or not I'm I'm like producing records, like I gotta pause. It's like such an interesting like time. Oh yeah, you know, um that's how it is. I I love it. And um, so yeah, we we play different festivals all around the country. So like we did uh the New Orleans Jazz Fest last year. That was so cool and Nomad Jazz Fest. And um, and then of course we've done uh Austin City Limits a few times. We did uh Lollapalooza, so they have all these kids stages set up for for um for kids and families, and then as well, of course, you know, other summer festivals. I used to do a lot of um uh whatchamacallit libraries. Once I moved out of Brooklyn, I I kind of slowed down some of that and have been doing more and more production. Um but but yeah, so I'll do like we do the the bigger kind of festival shows and things like that these days. And uh what did we do? Uh actually when my last the the latest album, um so Graciendo is an all-Spanish album for kids. And um when that one released, we went on tour on the West Coast. We went to Oregon and that was really fun, just like five days, um, five to six days we did several festivals and like other museums and things like that. That was just so fun. It's just a whole you know, playing, you're not just playing for kids, you play for families. So, um, you know, and it's something that again, the power of music uh is something where you can give tools, like I see it as giving tools to parents and entertainment and and stuff to live by for the kids. So, like the tools for the parents are things that they can maybe it's a a dialogue, right? How to about what uh what this song is about, you know. I have a song called Um Round and Round, and it's about letting go. And it's just you know, that's a very difficult thing and resilience. So it's just like sometimes you get very sad, right? Life goes round and round, sure. And um, and so how do you get up? You have to get up, dust it off, and keep going. And so, you know, so you get these opportunities to to start, you know, maybe some difficult conversations, and also you have the opportunity of getting the kids up to move, right? Getting up and dancing, so like you cover the full spectrum of kids growing up, and getting to do that live is just a treat.

SPEAKER_04 36:09

Oh, I bet.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Um, I mean, it is wonderful. We played uh the Performing Arts Center in Virginia, Fairfax, Virginia, um just where when were we there in March? And I that was wild. We played for a thousand kids.

SPEAKER_04 36:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

Um, so there were like several different schools who came to this show. Right. And so it was just so wild. So I'm like, I have a lot of call and response, you know, it's like old jazz for um with uh lyrics for kids, right? So it's still like you're hearing jazz sounds, you know, really fast swing and um different things, you know, horn arrangements, the whole thing. And so there's a lot of call and response. So you hear the kid, I'm like, kids, all right, sing after me, you know, that that the and they're like a thousand kids, ah it's like it's so energetic and it's so wonderful. Um, and so it's like, you know, and all the kids, they just they're just so engaged from from beginning to end. And they come out with the biggest smiles on their faces, and um and I love it when I can give them like uh I I try to make sure that there's stuff that they can like leave with, you know, just like a physical thing, right? Because like people don't really buy that many CDs anymore and things like that. So like uh there's a I often close the the shows with my song balloon, and um, and so I have these like branded balloons, purple, of course, because my hair is purple, so it's like it's purple balloons with uh Lucy Kalantari and the Jazz Cats logo on it, and so all the kids are like you know, bumping balloons, we call uh keepy uppie. So like they have to they have to like bounce the balloons. I'm like, this is not my balloon, not your balloon, it's our balloon. We all have to stick it up in the air, and so they're like up there, and then at the end of the show, they each get to take home their own balloon so they have something physical to take, you know, to take home with them so they can remember that day forever.

Joey Stuckey 38:04

Oh that is so cool.

SPEAKER_03 38:06

That is what a show is like with Lucy Collantarian.

Joey Stuckey 38:09

That sounds amazing, and you know, they have they have so much energy.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Oh, it's so much energy, you know.

Joey Stuckey 38:15

Yeah, yeah. I bet you go home and and go, I need a nap. Totally, like, totally, totally.

SPEAKER_02 38:21

Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 38:22

But they they no, they really are energetic. It's interesting because um I I can't really observe it uh uh visually, but a lot of times I used I would go into the school system and you know, um and play and uh and talk about um you know the the the what I call living a successful life of intention, which is you know, doing doing what is meaningful to you and doing what makes you happy and doing what the what's you know what's you know gives to others and and also gives to you and all these and so the the the overarching message is you know I'm a blind brain tumor survivor, I've had a lot of challenges, still a lot of challenges, but if I can do it, you can do it. And so um it was interesting. Uh a lot of times they'd ask me to do, you know, high school kids is is pretty easy. You can really you can really get into the weeds on on some some stuff there, and you know, they're going through so many changes. But with the with the little kids, you know, uh the preschoolers and stuff like that, obviously I have to simplify uh way down. Um but what's interesting is the the little kids uh are all so enthusiastic uh and just want to sing and jump around and you know have so much fun. If if if you encourage them to clap, they do, and they you know, and then when the kids get about 12, they they start thinking, they start going, oh I want to participate, but I'm not sure I look cool doing this. Right, right. And eventually, you know, eventually you you wear them down to the until they participate. That's what I do. I was like, oh come on, I can I can't see you, but I can hear that you're not singing. It's like, you know, and so uh but it's so interesting to to watch that sort of shift. And then, you know, when they get about 15, they don't care again. They're you know they're they're interested in it, they're they're they'll play with you. But it's it's fascinating to to be in the market you're in. And I want to talk about your love for sound, um, which is something I didn't realize that you were you were obsessed with when you were growing up, which was very, very cool, uh, and the wonderful exhibit you did that was sort of three-dimensional uh experience. Um tell me about that, because I wanted so bad to come and visit that, but I couldn't make it. But it was was it it was was it in a library or a museum? I can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

It was at the museum, the children's museum of Manhattan.

Joey Stuckey 40:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

And uh with some help from Jenilec and Apogee and um Dolby Atmos, as well as uh We Are Moving the Needle. Uh we I can't believe we pulled this off. It was amazing. So I went, um I set myself out to explore what um Dolby Atmos was all about, right? That was like the whole rage. Everybody get a get in an atmosphere, get in an atmosphere, right? So I'm like, but I'm in children's music. Like what what benefit is there? Like the kids aren't gonna be like, oh wow, listen to this beautiful surround sound. Like, you know, it just like um so I went to um the AES show when it was in New York City in 2023, and then um so I with that mission, I was just like, all right, I'm going to learn what Golby Atmos is, why is it important, and how can, you know, how can this benefit kids?

SPEAKER_04 41:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

And like, man, can I tell you when you enter a space with a question, all the answers, like you kind of like you're a magnet for answers, you know, because like you have that intention, you know, you state your intention in your head before you step fo step foot, and then suddenly you start scanning everything. Because that mission was like wild. I learned so much from being there, and I said, Okay, I get it. But and that and the thing was, all the things that they were showing at AES at the time were just music that was already recorded, um, already mixed, and they're like, here it is, and uh, you know, readapted, right? So re-released, mixed and atmosphere. And I'm like, okay, I mean that's fine. Why is the snare all the way over there? You know, like that's so weird. That's like that makes no sense to me. And like, um, and that honestly, it wasn't that enjoyable like that, because it's just like, you know, there's one one spot where whatever. It was just like it was it was bizarro, and then but then I started to understand like what if see, remember what I said what if you start writing a song with the intention of Dolby Atmos? Because what's happening is that people are just sort of readapting their thing that's already been recorded and mixed, and here it is in the Atmos release, right? Right, and then like, or you know, people go in and and record their thing, it's just like okay, now here's an Atmos mix too. Right. Um but what if you go in with like knowing that it will be you know recorded and uh it was will be mixed in Atmos? What will that change? And even for kids' music, wait a minute, what can we do to tell a story for kids? Because now we're we're doing like immersive audio, how cool would it be? What if what if you know the sound that the kids hear becomes this immersive st song story that's like like really like engaging in this way because like they have sound all the way around them, and so you know it's not just a song, but it's a song that takes them on a journey. And so that's that's where my mission started. So that's what I came out with. From AES. And then shortly after, um, because the universe works the way it does, like literally a few weeks after I had gone to um to Seville for the Latin Grammys. It was there that year because a song uh and album I had produced, I had co-produced, was nominated. And so I was just like, I want to go to Seville.

SPEAKER_04 44:21

So I went to Latin.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

I went to the Latin Grammys in Seville. And that's where I met Roger Montejano.

Joey Stuckey 44:28

And one of my favorite people.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

And he was so great, and we I just had told him about, you know, my AES exploration and discovery and idea, and he's like, let's talk some more. And so we started going and going and just um kind of rehashing and and and sort of making, you know, playing on this idea. And then he said, Let's do it. And I said, Okay. Let's go. So I called him up, okay. I have an idea. How about if it's like a a bedtime story that's like um, you know, about uh like chasing a butterfly and it's like kind of chasing dreams. And he's like, Well, wait, because it's like at night, what if it's a firefly? Oh, even better. Oh, yeah, okay, and that the rest is history. That is so cool. So we we co-wrote a song called The Firefly. Um in Spanish is La Luciana Gaso. There's an English version and this and a Spanish version. So this one was literally from beginning all the way to Mix it. We always had Atmos in mind. And um, so in terms of how, you know, what would it be like? So, like you're chasing after this firefly, right? It's a symbolism of chasing a dream. So you're outside, so you're passing, like, you know, you're you're hearing these outdoor sounds, you're passing some water, you're passing this. So I'm just like literally already thinking, I want this water to be in here, I want this sound effect in here, but like as part of the song, again, this is not like just a a a book being recited, right? It's a song, and you're really like in this adventure. So all the lyrics, all the things, it was just like it was this movement that I wanted to create. And um, and so next thing I know, I had we had this song, and that that's the album that got nominated again, recorded it upstairs. Nice, and then um, and then after that, I started doing just a few a few other songs, and those I didn't write, but I had uh I produced for other artists. I said, okay, these will not be written, they weren't written for Atmos, but I can arrange them for Atmos. So then I started thinking about like you know, this and that, like here's how we'll we'll deliver it. Can you slow it down? Let's do this. And so I worked with these artists so carefully and did these arrangements, and so we wound up with four songs, four wonderful songs that were Dolby Atmos um immersive tracks. And um Dolby was was just like, wait, what for kids? And Genelik, I I approached Genelik, I made friends with Genilec at uh AES and and like a another grand party, and they're like, You're doing what? They're like, Well, this is interesting. Can you come talk about it? And and then um I uh also asked, like, uh, do you think we could show it to kids in the way it was intended? And then boom, we got the children's museum, and Genilec jumped in and Dolby Atmos jumped in. So, like, it became this experience where it's just like not only did they did we did this idea pop up, right, from the what if, but it also all the way up to realization and where kids actually got to experience this with a full Atmos setup at this museum, and they came and listened to all the four songs. It was a 17-minute experience that that ran every 30 minutes. Wow, and they would come and uh we I put some, you know, again, they're not like audio uh experts, right? So I had they were all very like bedtime type songs, so like a lot of song stories. So I had uh paper on the floor so they could just sort of you know swirl with markers and things like that, anything, any abstract things or drawings that they wanted to do, whatever they wanted to do. And it was so interesting, Joey. Like the moment sound would start, like the the experience would start with, are you ready? And then from one another speaker up above, are you ready? And then like all these sound effects and things, they're like you know, so you'd see their faces, like, what is this? They're like, here's what you're gonna do, and then you know, draw your sound, draw anything you feel like, and the moment the music started, they would just start drawing, and it was just so peaceful and wonderful, and then they would pause and just like look up, like listen, just sort of like you would see that they would kind of get so engaged with the sound that they would get lost in it, and then they would resume drawing. And I had to tell some of the parents, like, don't worry, if they stop drawing, it's not because they're bored, they're listening. Like, let them list them, like give them space. Yeah, and so these parents during this experience, Joey, they would like, I've never seen my kids sit down for more than 15, like 15 minutes ever, like even five minutes to like doing just like chilling. This is the best exhibit ever.

Joey Stuckey 49:29

It it fell amazing.

SPEAKER_03 49:31

It was so wonderful. Thank you for letting me like talk so much about it. It was such a wonderful uh experience, and the kids just like they just it was just such a one-of-a-kind um moment for them, and and they were happy and the parents were happy, and we left with all these like really cool c like artwork that they just did. And I I posted a bunch of it so that they could see what um so parents could see what what they did.

Joey Stuckey 49:59

So it was how long did the exhibit last? I mean, I I I guess it had a limited run or how Right.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

Yeah, it was just the weekend. It was during um President's Day weekend. Okay, and um, so it was just Saturday and Sunday, and um and it just cycled every every 30 minutes during the I mean it sounds incredible.

Joey Stuckey 50:16

I I I remember you know commenting on your post when I saw it on Facebook or something, and I was like, I am so jealous that I'm not there to experience this. And I think you really hit on something brilliant, which goes to you know good storytelling, which you know you know, music is storytelling, it's it's communication. Um and that was the intention of using the Dolby Atmos, you know, to its maximum potential. And I really I really feel the same way you do because uh I've heard some stuff at Atmos, and I'm like, okay, you know, this is cool, but it didn't really light my world on fire like I thought it would. Um and I think part of the reason for that is you know a lot of people are like, well, um, we'll take these stems and uh you know, we'll we're we're we're gonna take all these stereo stems and just sort of move them around. And um, you know, it's just not really it's not really using the tech in a compelling way. Uh and and and and you're right, because it's already been mixed, it's already been you know done, and and then there's a certain expectation of that, and um, you know, uh you then some people are too you know a little shy at altering it too much or from from the stereo mix that everybody loves. And so there's there's all kinds of things that go into it. So and and then of course the other problem that you expertly uh got around by having this happen at a museum is do you have the space and all the speakers? I mean, that's like you know how how many people have a real Atmos system at home? I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:43

Yeah, exactly. Well, what was interesting is just like you know, so we we spoke at NAM too about it and and we got to show adults, you know, the full experience that talked about like you know those the composing of it, like everything that went in. And and so in doing all of this, I also, you know, was able to like kind of research, you know, why, you know, how will this benefit families? Because that's a again, that's where I started. And one of the things is that like more and more cars are coming up with um that have uh Dolby Atmos. Yeah, you know, so so you can um, you know, a lot of listening, a lot of music listening happens in the car for families when they drive, you know, from from school or or grandma's house or even like road trips. So like you know, instead of getting the kids like on the screen, you know, with watching movies, what if they listen, you know, and I love, love, love that idea. Less screens, more listening, right? Oh yeah. So um, and that was the thing that's what I that was like kind of a driving force for me, where I'm just like, no, they're gonna be able to enjoy this and this setting. And like I know eventually more and more all of this, like there'll be more systems that support, you know, Atmos in all these different ways, and uh, and I'm really excited for that.

Joey Stuckey 53:03

I I you know my favorite part of it is the height. That's the part that I really enjoy the most um when I'm listening to an Atmos mix or something, is you know, the the fact that you got four speakers at the ceiling and you're you know you're able to get some height. And I I just think that I think that's really compelling, you know, um, for for a lot of things, but especially music. I think you said something real important earlier about about space. And um I think music that has space can can be a really powerful uh tool on Atmos when you give it this this place to live. I mean, I would love to hear one of my favorite records and one one a record that was uh a watershed for me as a musician, uh, is Miles Davis kind of blue. I mean, that would be amazing to hear in Atmos because Miles, you know, uh uh just lets those those notes sink in before he plays the next one. He's he's letting you think about what he just did. I mean, you know, it's like so that kind of stuff is really powerful, and and I think that's brilliant. Now, is there going to be uh exhibit number two with some more songs in Atmos?

SPEAKER_03 54:02

I sure hope so. I mean, there's so many things, you know. There I have so much music in my head, Joey.

Joey Stuckey 54:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

It's crowded in there, it's so crowded, and I'm like, I need to move faster. And like um, it's hard to do.

SPEAKER_00 54:15

I mean, gosh.

SPEAKER_03 54:16

I'm just so um I love doing it and like and that space, like like you said, um that was the most the biggest um opening for me. Where it's just like, wow, look at all the space we get to play with, right? Like that's how I see when I think about Avos, I'm like, wow, we could do so much here, you know. So it's just like it feels like this big stage, and so all the arrangements, it's it's just like thinking about where where everything sits, how it will travel.

Joey Stuckey 54:50

And in fact, did you get someone to did you get someone to come and like tune the speakers to the room? Or how how did that work when you set up the exhibit?

SPEAKER_03 54:58

Yeah, actually, um Genelik has a pretty cool uh calibration uh software that they have. They're gonna kill me that I forget what it's called, but it's okay. I've got it, I've got it too.

Joey Stuckey 55:10

I have Gen Electric speakers in my studios.

SPEAKER_03 55:11

And they they're all like the way they all talk to each other, and it's just it's really incredible. So, like, and um, you know, we had to we had to set it up ourselves um uh because like something had happened with with my friend out there at Gen Electric. So I'm like, we'll we'll get it. It was just like just an emergency he had to deal with. So yeah, so my husband and I and like four student volunteers from NYU came out and we did it. It was like amazing. I actually posted about it on Instagram, like anniversary. So it's just like these kids, like they all we all did it, like they contributed, we did this, we contributed, we made this happen. This was amazing. So um, because it takes a village.

Joey Stuckey 55:58

Oh man.

unknown 55:58

Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 55:59

Yeah, I mean it's it's it's a complicated process. Um uh but I mean they've made it, they've made it pretty easy, but um, but in a in a big space, I would have I would have thought that that would have been a a challenge um to do. And I I think that I think more cool exhibits like that is really a beautiful idea. Um and if you can get if you can get kids to to listen and to to um you know to to engage all their senses and all their imagination um with sound. I mean that's that's that's absolutely an incredible experience for them. I think that's so cool. And I hope that you do another one and next time uh I will be there somehow. If I have to FedEx myself to New York, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 56:42

Uh Utmost Story Circle.

Joey Stuckey 56:44

I love it. Oh, that's cool. Well, so so I know we we've been chatting for a while, and you've been very gracious with the time, but I do have to ask you um two final questions. And the first one is what uh tool did did you learn, whether as a composer or engineer or or just uh it almost you know, I mean you you seem to really have a good grasp on the psychology of children as well. Like what tool did did did you learn over your over your life so far, whether it was officially in school or just out doing stuff, that do you think serves you well and and informs like everything you do besides besides the wonderful what if? Um you know what what do you what do you think is the essential thing that you've been able to to use uh in its maximal form to to create all these amazing, wonderful things?

SPEAKER_03 57:35

Um for children specifically? Um okay. Wow, that is a good question, Joey.

Joey Stuckey 57:44

Um just speaking to them in a way that is fruitful, I find, like a really challenging idea because you don't want to be too complicated, but you also don't don't want to dumb it down. I mean it's it's I just wonder it's amazing that you're able to communicate with them in this way.

SPEAKER_03 57:59

There's two there are two things that come to mind, and and uh because it's something that I do come back to often. I think about them often. You know, things like my uh, you know, Mr. Rogers.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

You know, in terms of how he spoke to kids and like including difficult subjects, right? And and and he always found a way um to to make things and and transitions. He was very particular about like the land of make-believe being this separate space, right? That wouldn't cross over. And like there was just something, everything was very, very thoroughly thought through. And then um and so I've I always think about him and also Maria Montessori. So my son went to uh Montessori school, um, and I we practiced Montessori um pedagogy in at home, so we set it up. It's uh it's a method of kind of a life and and teaching method for children where it's um you know they're i it's almost children child led, but basically you're setting up the environment a lot of focus on the environment where uh to make it conducive for them to learn. So and the more I read about it and I studied Maria Montessori's work, the more I realized like, wait, this is life. You know, when you set up the environment in a way that encourages you and to blossom, to encourages encourages you to blossom and grow, you are gonna do just that. And so I often think about those kind of the different phases that kids go through in growing up, and so how their needs change, and that's something that she addressed as well. So so a lot of the content, a lot of the lyrics, you know, even you know, the sound, you know, because kids, like you said before, they they're they got sophisticated ears, you know, and and there are different things for different phases, right, as they grow up. But it's always like how you address children. You don't have to do the really high, like, hello boys and girls, right? I don't know. They don't you don't need you don't need that. You know, like and it's totally okay if you do that too. Like there's a time and place for for different things, but it's just like they'll do they'll have just as much fun. You just watch. And it's um so that's kind of the thing I always think about Maria Montessori and Mr. Rogers. Those are kind of like my two my two big ones.

Joey Stuckey 1:00:35

That's that's incredible because um I I'm a big Mr. Rogers fan, and um I always thought that um you know one of the things he said that was so powerful was like, you know, look for the helpers. And um and just you know, there was so much kindness um in in what he did um that that that I really that I really valued that. And it's interesting. My wife um was visiting family. Um I was sick, I'd I'd hurt myself, hurt my shoulder, but uh oh yeah, I got a metal shoulder and I did something silly and and I I had to like go through a bunch of rehab to get it fixed. But anyway, um she um w was with uh a a little two-year-old um niece um that she hadn't really met before, um, you know, and and uh was visiting family and um and uh she uh found Mr. Rogers on YouTube and uh and and played it for her. And the young the young lady uh was just um just mesmerized by Mr. Rogers. Um he just he just found a way to just to speak uh in such an authentic and powerful way to these children, and it's amazing. And and you know, people will often sort of criticize him for talking slow or whatever, but but he yeah he really wasn't, but he was just very thoughtful about everything that happened.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:55

So thoughtful, yeah. Very, very careful about the words he would choose, and just like making sure that that kids would kind of digest and it and the speed thing, like this is more recent, you know, like the as and you can tell, like if you watch if if you like even just listen to any cartoons from the 80s, like Thundercats. I used to love the Thundercats. Oh yeah, and like I listened to the Thundercats not too long, like probably like two years ago or something, an old episode, and I'm like, wow, the pacing is very slow.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:30

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:30

And it's just like and He-Man is another one. They're they're making a new He-Man movie, by the way. I I have heard about this. So like He-Man is another one, like the we're just the speech, like everything is just slower. So there's just kind of a a um a cultural thing, like this social media and the internet has definitely like sped things up a bit much. Yeah. And like it shouldn't be. Like, we don't need to be that fast. Like, we can, you know, um digestible bits are so welcome, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:01

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:02

And um, so I think that it's just like the the culture and time right now that things things are just so much faster. But like at the time, you know, Mr. Rogers. I think it I wonder if he were to start now. I mean, it would be a different a whole different thing, but like what would the pace be like?

Joey Stuckey 1:03:21

You know, I that is an interesting question. I'd love to I wish we could ask him. Um, you know, the the do you have a favorite cartoon? By the way, I have to know. Since you love cartoons, I do too.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:33

Oh my gosh.

Joey Stuckey 1:03:33

Umvils in your house.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:40

Um let me see. Uh oh my goodness. Oh, this is hard. Um for a while, uh well, Bugs Bunny, like that's a classic, right? That that's always been the thing. Uh I even have a favorite Bugs Bunny episode. Uh but uh let me see, let me see.

Joey Stuckey 1:03:56

I like Duck Seed and Rabbit Season. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:58

Ooh, that yeah, that's a good one. Um, Dexter's Laboratory. They just on Cartoon Network. And it's funny because that one came out like as I was already an adult, so like, or a bigger kid, I don't even remember or what. But I I know I wasn't a a kid anymore, but I was really obsessed with that show because I loved it, no dee, no.

Joey Stuckey 1:04:17

I love the idea that it was just like this all the voices, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:20

This kid, this kid who like really was so like into science and into making inventions, and they were always just so silly. And he had this this really nosy sister who just wanted to do to be involved in everything. Hey Dexter, what are you doing? It's a great show.

Joey Stuckey 1:04:38

Yeah, it's a great show. I love it. I love that. That's a that's a good cartoon. Uh my wife, I I'm a I'm a big Spongebob fan, but uh my wife doesn't care for it. So um but I I like some SpongeBob. Um the uh and you know, a lot of cartoons are are highly visual. Um so some of them, you know, are not really as accessible for me, but also there's a real sweet one, and you've probably seen it, uh Apple and Onion that I kind of enjoy. Um I've never heard of that one. If you haven't if you haven't seen it, you should check it out. It's it's it's they're short little 12-minute episodes, I think, and uh, but they're they're pretty cute. This is the last thing. Um I have to ask you, and I hope you'll still love me after I ask you this because it's a loaded question. Um, but what are your thoughts on AI in our space?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:25

Ooh, um hot topic. Yeah, people get mad. I just came back. Well, well, it's funny, it's it's still formulating, you know, like there's still things, and it's like, you know, we were talking before about the pace of just like, you know, I have so much music in my head, and it's just like, you know, I'm trying to get it out, you know, out out there, right? And um so like, but I'm working on on two other productions right now, and I gotta finish those, and then I'm gonna work on my next album. So it's like there has to be an order to things, yeah. So it's just like, but there's like this set kind of fast paced. things so it's like and yeah AI is is here you know and it's just like we could fight fight it but i it it is not you know as as technology goes as most things go with with music you know a new thing gets introduced and it's just like um you know there's a big panic and then we have to adapt. Now this one's different. There are there it it feels different and I know like you know when when Napster came out and all that right like it was just like oh it's the end and it's just like but it was the beginning of something new. So like this is the beginning of something different but I I am concerned Joey. And the the short term concern is just like okay well my role as a producer I have to evolve right because it's just like anybody could just go to Suno and just like upload their demo and just like spits out like here's your new song. So there's that. So it's just like well well wait what's my role what who am I? Exactly what am I supposed to do? You know and and like the uh in this recent thing that I went to they're just like every studio is using AI and I was just like they are I'm not I'm like I'm I'm what am I behind the times? Apparently I'm behind the times we're behind the times Joey we're we're yeah we're I mean there are certain things that you know we are using AI in a in an auxiliary way right because like things like Melodyne like there's some AI built in to like analyze audio right so it could create the blobs and do these things but it's like it's from this and the analytical way right so we can manipulate the audio. Now um but this is different we're talking about like generative right AI stuff that's like making the music for you. So like um so so it's interesting um the so there there's the evolution part right so like the roles have to evolve what is that going to look like so there's there's that immediate concern in terms of but there's another thing that that's really pressing on me and and it's it's m it's music related but it's also like world related it's like what how will our brains evolve Joey that's a concern like that's the thing that gets me most because we're taking away you know the the things that make us so human you know and giving it to a to a computer to do this other thing for us. And so we're using our brains less and less and so which makes you know just certain parts of your brain just dormant. You know studies have already been have already been done on students who are relying heavily on chat GPT and other forms of AI you know Claude or whatever to to help them with their schoolwork. And so their critical thinking is going out the window. There's atrophy there yeah yeah and like the thing is like even in the studio while we're you know while I'm making stuff like I'm always thinking like what if right like what if that what if goes away you know like that's terrible. You know like I love creating I love like the problem solving thing. It's just like and curiosity and all the things like um and um so that's the thing like the long term thing that I'm I'm most concerned about. So I don't have full you know I don't have any good answers. I know that there's um you know the assignment right now is that we have to figure out how to evolve and how to how to live in this world. And like I do hope that certain laws come into play where where it can protect our like what we've done so far, right? Like the likeness of us and and our styles. Yes and um and I hope we find a way to keep AI as a tool and not a replacement for our brains.

Joey Stuckey 1:10:07

Yeah. I have gotten a lot of hate on social media for my stance on this uh and uh and and basically you know what I find is that usually not always but usually somewhere in the middle is where the truth is and so you know I'm all for AI um being uh of a of an assisting role so there are people that are are are using AI to help them be organized I can get behind that uh there are blind people uh like myself who have hope that AI can help us interface better in the visual world and and be our eyes uh so and that's happening that's starting to finally happen I've been preaching going to AI for that for about the past 10 years actually um and so I I I I get that uh what I don't like uh is uh on the other hand you've got the CEO of Sunos saying some pretty ridiculous things about creativity um I'm scared of looking up what he's talking about yeah I mean well and he's he's basically saying music's too hard I don't want to put in my 10,000 hours and you know and so I was like you know so I I I have a real visceral response to that. So you know and also I don't really like you know I love Isotope um they make some incredible tools but like I don't really like uh the little uh little thing that says hey may I suggest uh where you start your levels no you may not uh I am a professional engineer I don't need your suggestions uh it makes me think of Clippy everybody hated Clippy you know like I don't know if anybody remembers what clippy was but that was a Microsoft Word tool that kept trying to get in your business and make you that's right you know and I was like this is this is Clippy. So I don't you know I don't need that but the the other the other side to this is that for good or ill it's here and it's it's not going anywhere. And so we also have to recognize that it's part of our world so there was a post about Berkeley students and I'm a proud Berkeley student myself um in Berkeley and Boston uh protesting all these uh new AI courses they designed for Berkeley and basically saying we came here to learn to be musicians we didn't come to learn AI and so I respect that and and 100% behind the students on that. But the other thing I'd say is we can't pretend it's not there either so we do need to have at least a class in what's going on with AI and one of the things that started this I've been meaning to do this podcast idea of stuck on sound for years. And what finally got me over the hump was that nobody knew the law and AI and people were were saying that my read on that was wrong and I thought well you know obviously I'm not perfect it is possible I'm wrong but you know I haven't seen this nebulous there's all these things out there where it's like oh a certain percentage is copyrightable and I was like I don't think that's true. So finally I got my attorney and said look come sit down with me for an hour on on a on this podcast and let's talk about what the law is and uh that's why this all started but but I knew really cool people like yourself and I was like there's so many great stories to be told um so that's that's what we're gonna do. So anyway yeah there there's a perspective on this there just just for the you know for the umpteenth time I I like to kill I like to uh destroy ignorance wherever I can um and you know I I have been trying to kill this stupid idea that that is throughout our industry that oh I can copyright my song by mailing it to myself uh no so it's like I have I have been preaching about that for 20 years. But anyway um with AI it's there's the same you know there's a lot of the same stuff. And so you know really the the problem that we're having is uh and this is a conversation for another day but is the fact that the law is always behind the technology but we really can't afford to be that way anymore because AI is changing so rapidly that it's almost we really have to do something significant soon. And um and and there is currently no comprehensive federal legislation that that gives guardrails. I mean you've got a couple of states like you know Tennessee's passed the Elvis Act and there's some other handful of things out there but um you know um there's a lot of things that uh that that that you know need to be done to to protect our industry and that's not to say that we would should say no I ever you know we're you know but doesn't mean we're a Luddite just because we don't want the we don't want we don't want clippy you know what I mean so but anyway it's it's the the thing I guess what I'm trying to say in a in a roundabout way is I cherish your spark your creativity you Lucy as a unique being and that is what is so important to protect because the music industry in many ways has become more disposable uh than it ever should have and I think that most artists who have any sense of history uh know that we have uh a role to play in the betterment of our society and arts is really important in that role and I take it real seriously I think it's my responsibility to help promote new ways of thinking um but I also think it's my responsibility to to preserve history in the past and make sure we don't make mistakes that we've made before. So you know as artists I mean these are the things that we're doing and uh and that's that is a worthwhile pursuit. Yes so I but I get a lot of hate for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:25

You know I think we'll we'll find our way um we have to find our way right yeah um and I I think like we also have to be open to to that evolution right of of what what it means. And like I am curious that like I want to have more conversations about this because it was interesting to see like okay it's here like we're incorporating it like all all the studios use it again like hearing that I'm just like I'm not man I'm yeah yeah I'm not either what are you talking about? And and it's just like um I do use uh you know just some assistant things right like you know helping me with some of my lists or things like that. Yeah well that's I mean that makes sense that's like the stuff that that we talked about but like so I want to know like what what else is happening so like what does that look like and and what does that mean again like as a producer um our roles have to evolve and what does that look like so that's that's gonna be my next mission. Maybe that's when I go into AES next time that's gonna be my big question Joey nice and then I'm gonna come out with a big answer.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:28

I don't know I love it.

Joey Stuckey 1:16:30

Well I'm gonna leave I feel comfortable making this your problem so I am now officially I am now I love to delegate I love to delegate it's one of my great joys and I love I love thinking oh that's my assistant Cray's uh job he can do that oh that's Jennifer's job I don't have to do that that's I'll give that I'll just send this email to her uh so I am now passing all my concerns and the weight uh over to you Lucy to discover how we can make this work and uh I will now sleep a lot more easily at night oh good it's it's all your fault I can help with the cargo it's all you now thank you so much for your time my friend I appreciate it so much and uh thank you so much for having me this was really fun I didn't even notice time time was like that's a good sign that's a good sign and I know you've got cellos to work on so I'll I'll leave you to your cellos but seriously blessings to you for doing such incredible work and and so thoughtful um and it's so exciting and I just you know I always know whenever I get a chance to interview one of my friends that's doing cool stuff that someone out there is going to hear something you said and it's gonna change them for the better. I mean that's that's the exciting part about having these conversations. Well that makes me happy thank you for saying that you you are welcome my friend and I will I will talk to you soon and I will look forward to hearing some more Funkalely in the near future.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:50

Sounds great. Thank you Joey thanks friend take care all right bye