Joey Stuckey 0:00

Welcome once again to Stuck on Sound. Man, I'll tell you what, I never fail to be excited when I know I'm gonna do one of these podcasts because I always get to talk to someone that is usually an old friend of mine and also very, very cool. Today is no exception. Lonnie Park, uh producer extraordinaire, is with us today. And I'm told uh by Ricky Cadge and others in a circle that I run into that he looks like uh Keith Urban. So uh we're gonna let you uh look at the show notes with his picture and decide for yourself. But Lonnie, welcome to the program, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Thank you, brother. Good to be here.

Joey Stuckey 0:38

Listen, I gotta tell you something. Um I have read a lot of bios in my day. And uh yours is probably the shortest I've ever read. And I I I I thought that was so interesting. Um let me tell you what I took away from it. And now we we've known each other quite some time now. And we've we've we've we've uh had the privilege of hanging out uh primarily, you know, uh Grammy Week, that kind of thing uh in LA and uh that kind of stuff. But um what I loved about your bio, what I thought was really interesting and exciting because it it speaks to my heart, is the eclectic nature of the records you've done. And um, and I think that is, you know, a true music enthusiast, uh, there's certainly nothing wrong with niche markets or having a specialty or anything like that, but I mean, a true music enthusiast loves the work and loves to explore. And it sounds like you have really done that in your career. Um I I would have just loved to know um how you got in this business and if you feel like eclecticism is is is a strength or or something you have to uh something you have to to guard against. Because for the first part of my career, I was told I was too eclectic and I'd never sell records and you know, and that kind of stuff. And uh and so I eventually said, well, it's what makes me happy, so the hell with everything else. So so that's but talk to me about your early early days and and why you've decided that that this is where you want to be.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Well, I I didn't decide this is where I want to be. This is just where I ended up. Um I did know that I wanted to be in music, but if you rewind all the way, I mean, yeah, again, my super short bio doesn't cover all this, but I grew up in a uh crazy conservative um Baptist home. When when I say Baptist, it's not your typical Baptist. Pretty much uh very fundamental thou shalt not anything, especially if it feels good. And one of those things was uh rock and roll, and and as a matter of fact, it was contemporary music of any kind, and especially anything with drums. I was not that was off the table. Wow, not allowed to listen to essentially music that wasn't Christian and wasn't old. Um, when that started to expand for me, it moved into quartet music, Statler Brothers and all that kind of stuff, which I was fascinated by the harmony. I would get goosebumps listening to it. Oh, those guys are great. Always spoke to me, even since I was a kid, even when I wasn't allowed to listen to the contemporary music. And then when I got to be a teenager, I you know, I started to be a rebel and started to listen to some things I wasn't supposed to. And that's when I started to hear things like, you know, Kansas and Styx and Asia and these rock bands and I uh and the police. Um and what's crazy is uh there was a friend of mine who I went to a Baptist school too, so it was like the same 20 kids I I knew all the way through. And then, but I did know this one kid that went to a public school and he was kind of on the outside world. And uh he came to me one day and he said, What is wrong with rock and roll music? And I started to tell him all the terrible evils of rock and roll music. And he said, You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna bring you an album, and I want you to listen to it, and I want you to tell me what is wrong, what's so evil about this record. And what's really funny is he brought me police synchronicity. Wow. And I put that album on and I got out my notebook, and boy, I wrote him all kinds of notes about how ESP was demonic and all these other things. So what's what's really interesting about that comes much later. But I I mean, as early as then, I was fascinated by rock and roll. I I loved contemporary music, but it I was brand new to it and I was learning, and then eventually my buddy wore me down, and I realized there was really actually nothing wrong with this music, uh, and then fell in love with it, and next thing you know, I'm playing it. Um, and then you fast forward all the way to just a few years ago in my career, and I ended up doing an album with Stuart Copeland from the police, and got a chance to actually tell him that story, which he laughed his ass off about. Um, and uh and then, of course, that thing won a Grammy that was just absolutely wonderful. Yeah, I'm very well aware of the record.

Joey Stuckey 5:13

Yeah, it's a great record.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yeah, thanks, man. So I that's how I I kind of rolled into the music scene. And when I got in there, I'm in a small town. It's it's a little one square town called Freeville, New York. Most people think in New York they think it's a big city, but I live in the middle of nowhere um in the country, and and there wasn't a whole lot of music going on. Um, so it was it was a stretch for me to to be involved in anything. But um the music that I I was into, I it wasn't one particular thing. I just loved music. So having come from gospel and quartz up music and uh moved into contemporary Christian music, one of the first things my parents allowed me to listen to was like Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith and music like that. And um, and then moving into rock and roll, and then I started to learn to record. And then when I did that, I started recording for clients, and that expanded into everybody that was willing to pay for it. So it wasn't one genre, it was all over the place. And every different project I was fascinated by because it was all different. And just move ahead. You'll you'll find if you if you end up in a major city, you can specialize, you can be a rock and roll producer, and that's all I do. I was in a small town, I needed all the business I could get. So I took every client, regardless of genre. And because of that, my tastes were wide. Um, my my interest, the technical knowledge I needed to actually capture those various things is pretty wide. Um, I don't think I became brilliant at any one thing, but I got proficient enough to get paid to do it. Um so I mean that's kind of how I got into it, and then that's translated throughout my career. I would have never dreamed that I would be working so regularly with people from South Africa or from India or around the world. I didn't see my career going there, but I've just always been completely open to any kind of music that's good. And I've just been passionate about jumping all the way into whatever project it is, then this is where it led me.

Joey Stuckey 7:28

Yeah, I mean that that curiosity, uh, that zest for for life uh is is a big part of my journey as well. And it's it's you know, I think you share that. And and that, and that's you know, it's it's just for me, you know, I have a little bit of a restless spirit. And um uh I love the fact that today is a gospel record, tomorrow might be heavy metal, tomorrow might be pop, or you know what I like that. It's really, you know, it makes me happy. I it it you know, I I certainly love it. Did you did you think I mean, as a teenager being introduced to the evils of the uh secular world? I'm doing this in air quotes, and people can't see that, obviously. Uh which which, by the way, I only learned about air quotes a couple years ago. So anyway, I like to use them as much as possible and make up for lost time. The uh did did you find the sort of taboo nature of of rock and stuff to to to be a draw, or or did that not really matter? I mean, did you were you sneaking around listening to this sort of forbidden fruit? I mean, was that was that a big part of what happened?

SPEAKER_00 8:34

I was sneaking around for sure. But and you know what? There's there's no it's both. I I felt super guilty because of the way I was raised, that I was doing this wrong by listening to this music. But at the same time, it inspired me so much and it moved me so much emotionally that it was just that I was torn both ways until I was able to convince myself there's really nothing wrong with this music. And then I basically embraced every bit of it.

Joey Stuckey 9:04

That's great. I mean, and what about uh from an educational standpoint? Did you did you go to school for music? Did you or did or did you just just take to it uh by ear? Or what was your journey, like you know, getting the tools you need to be this awesome producer?

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Well, I um yeah, no, I didn't go to music school. Um I actually when I graduated high school, I knew I was supposed to go to college, um, but I didn't have good enough grades to get into anything major. So I went to our community college, and the closest thing they had that was musical related was a communications degree, TV and radio. And so I started that program. Meanwhile, I'm playing in bands, and I could have cared less about radio and TV and how to run a camera and and DJ. And I got about three-quarters of the way through, and I was just like, you know what, this just isn't for me. And I I dropped out, yeah. And uh and I I ended up, you know, by the time I was 21, I had family, you know, I was a very young parent, which also really dictated the uh the direction of my career as well, what was important to me. Right. And so, you know, I wasn't gonna run across the country and pursue a music career. I had to stay close to home and and take care of some kids. So uh I ended up opening a music store, a retail music store that sold guitars and drums and all that stuff, uh, with a business partner.

unknown 10:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

And we did it on a shoestring. I borrowed some bucks from my grandma. He borrowed some money from somewhere. And in this music store, I put my recording studio in there and built a place where we could have, you know, a pretty decent studio, but it wasn't the best gear in the world, but we made some darn good records. Um, did a lot of progressive metal records for some small labels, and plus, like we talked about those very eclectic, all over the place genre albums.

Joey Stuckey 11:05

Yeah. Um that's kind of how I ended up there. Yeah, I mean that that's that's absolutely fascinating. Now, now, what is it that you play? So, what what is your instrument?

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Started out on piano. Um, you know, I play piano and sing at the house just because there was music in the house all the time. We if there was one thing we had growing up, it was you sang at school, you sang at church, you sang in the house. My parents both sang, my mother played piano, my dad played guitar barely. Um, but it it was just always music in the house. So there was a piano in the house, and I just kind of learned to play it. Uh a babysitter taught me heart and soul, and I took it from there.

Joey Stuckey 11:45

I remember I remember learning that song.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I remember learning that's a good one. Perfect way to start.

Joey Stuckey 11:50

It's four chords, and yeah, and I will I just just to dispel any myths. Uh, I'm a guitar player, not a piano player. Most most of the famous blind people are piano players, but uh I am not. It's me and Jeff Healy and uh Jose Feliciano, I think. Yeah, yeah. But but uh but that is that's cool. So did you so you started playing keys on like bands and stuff like that, or did you switch to their instrument?

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah, yeah. No, I played keyboards, and uh it wasn't until I was doing a lot of studio work um where I went, shoot, I need a guitar player. And I was like, Well, I can figure I figured out piano, I could probably figure this guitar thing out. Absolutely. But you know, again, I I've I call myself the a rusty Swiss Army knife because I love it. I can do I can do a whole lot of jobs kind of mediocre. So but in the studio, man, I could get away with it. And you know, over the years I've I've improved, but it's just one of those things where hey, I need a banjo. So I grab a banjo and figure it out.

Joey Stuckey 12:49

Yeah, yeah.

unknown 12:50

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

And then by the as the years go by, you learn a ton of instruments.

Joey Stuckey 12:54

Yeah, I mean, I I'm the same, I mean, I'm I'm a low side of adequate piano player. Um, and and you know, I I play it in the studio, um, and it sounds like I'm pretty good, but I'm cheating. So I uh you know, I slow the tempo down, I use both hands for one part, you know, you know. So I cheat, but it's like I was like, this is too stupid to pay somebody to do I can do this. Um so you know, whereas I play guitar at a you know very high competitive level. Uh but but you know, the other stuff. And I used to be um again, low slide adequate drummer, and uh I hadn't sat behind a kit for 20 years, but I'm a good programmer. Uh and then I make it a really good drummer's problem, and they're always like, man, these are complicated parts. Like, yeah, it's not my problem. That is your problem now. And I I hired you because I know you can do this. So um what what is your what is your recording philosophy when it comes to you know uh trying to because because you've embraced the eclecticism, uh, that it was sort of a function of where you were. Um and and I think I I feel like it's a function of your of your nature as well because of your your curiosity that we've discussed. But I what is your what is your recording philosophy um in so much as how you approach each artist to bring out their uniqueness? What does that look like for you? What is your sort of uh uh initial process like?

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Well, I I can tell you that to me, the first part of the process is not musical. It's really figuring out who somebody is. Yeah. And I like all in all pre-production, I want to get to know who you are. And I ask a lot of questions. Where'd you come from? What makes you tick? What makes you hurt? What makes you what what's the craziest stuff you've been through? What are you struggling with now? Um, and you'll hit upon their their story, what brought them to where they are. And then it brings you to, okay, well, what's this album? And so many times an artist will come to me with, this is my next album. I'm like, okay, well, what makes it any better than your last album? What makes this special? Why even do eight to ten more songs if it's just eight to ten more songs to just keep recording and and writing? What's your purpose? And often they hadn't thought about that. And then uh we really start to dig in about what is this, what's the message we're saying here? What's the story we're telling? And who are you? Um I always uh want to make sure that I don't let an artist chase somebody else's uh character, that they really dig into their own. And my job is to figure out who you are and what you're trying to say, and then make the very best possible version of that that we can in the end. And it's kind of like what a marriage is, you know, where your your wife ideally makes it brings out the very best part of you.

unknown 15:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

It's like you on your own would go through life and you feel like I'm just fine. But then somebody else comes in and goes, I care about you. And I think I can amplify those great parts of you. And we can kind of hide that in the studio, you know, what are your weaknesses? Well, let's not show those. Yeah. Let's let's what are your strengths and let's make that come right to the top and let's make it undeniable. And then at the end of it, I I don't want people just to hear music. I want them to kind of get to know you a little bit and be like, I like that artist. Because, you know, here we are in this world of AI. What makes us different is our humanity and our stories and our struggles and our realness. And I want people that listen to the music that I produce, I want them to hear that and be like, I'm a fan of that human being and their music, not just the damn straight.

Joey Stuckey 16:54

I love it. I I think that's such an important thing to say. The I guess, you know, we always run up against budgets, you know. And um, you know, it it I can I I can tell you're a very thoughtful, careful, you know, explorer, uh, and and that you help um guide the artist through the process. And and I find, you know, as a producer, um uh you know, a lot of what I do is psychiatry, you know, and uh and keep you know, keep keep things keep things positive, keep things moving. Um, but do you have um like how much do you get involved in helping to craft the tunes? Are you are you you know guiding the the uh sound recording primarily, or do you get in there and help the artists, if they need help refining their vision and articulating who they are, do you get a chance to get in there and and help with the arranging and the songwriting and that sort of thing?

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Well, I I tell everybody at the beginning if if you're looking for somebody to just capture what you already do and then make make a really nice mix and master of it, I'm the wrong guy. I like to be involved in whatever's needed to elevate it. And that might be changing a lyric, changing a chord, cutting out an intro, tightening up a song, or making it twice as long. Whatever, whatever is required to to help it get to that next level. And in my mind, that needs to be able to go all the way to the ground level, which can make an artist uncomfortable when you actually go, here's the song you thought was done. And now we're gonna we're just gonna make sure. And then we go in with really analyze those lyrics. And you know, I just yesterday I was working with an artist, and uh we changed uh a second line that it literally just changing two words brought uh such major impact. It meant something so much more, and it was easier for the listener to grab onto. And so just those little twists and turns in the end, by the time you get to the mix, uh the message is more powerful. The listener really is what we're doing this for. So we want to make sure that they get the best experience they can, that they understand what you're saying, that they feel whatever emotion it is that they're gonna really feel from this whole song. So yeah, I like to get it in short answer to your question. Yeah, I like to get involved in every part of it that's needed. If you listen to it and it's just perfection, you don't don't mess with it just to mess with it. But right, right. But just be ready so that we can well, hey, can we make that better? Let's let's give it a try. And then if you can, great. And if you can't, just revert back.

Joey Stuckey 19:45

Yeah, undo.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah, exactly.

Joey Stuckey 19:48

Yeah, you know, I I don't know, I don't know, uh, Lonnie, I I was raised um in a southern household, but you never asked somebody their age. So I'm not gonna ask your age, but but did you start with analog tape? Because as a as a 15-year-old kid, like I did, I you know, even though it was not really in fashion anymore. Um, did you start with analog tape or where did you start?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Oh yeah, I'm 57, so you don't have to ask the question. Okay, uh born in 1968, me and the muscle cars.

Joey Stuckey 20:15

Uh so that is an album title, Me and the Muscle Cars. That's uh Patent D.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

That's actually you know, be careful, that might be the name of my next record. That's it. Do it, do it.

Joey Stuckey 20:26

Just you know, you produce flowers when it goes platinum. That's all I'm saying. Uh but no, I I love that. So uh, you know, I just wondered if you come from an aesthetic where you know like I don't I do not miss tape. Uh as a blind person, it was a pain in the ass. And uh uh I don't miss it. Uh how do you feel about it? I mean, what do you what do you think about it?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Man, I you know, I'm not I know that every step of my career I've watched the old fellas, and now I am one, um, really grumble about any new thing that happened. And the only thing that made me grumble is I couldn't afford it. I was always, you know, I was the poor kid trying to get by. Um but other than that, I'd any new technology I was excited about, and especially anything that made it easier. Analog sound, yeah. Man, I came I came up through where we saturated the tape, we hit those guitars nice and hard on the on the analog, and and it just made this cool thing happen. But I'm not willing to sit there with a razor blade and a grease pencil to make an edit. And I like to be able to move things around in time like we can uh I can't imagine going backwards at this point. I know there's guys that do but yeah, there are guys.

Joey Stuckey 21:40

You know, uh Jack Douglas just passed away recently, uh as you as you probably are aware. Yeah. Um and you know, he was he had sort of uh uh opined about uh going back to analog tape and and uh wanting to to to to do that because you know some of his seminal records with Aerosmith and John Lennon and you know was Analog. But I mentioned that because I was joking about control Z. But I think that you know the tech that we I am an analog person. So I have tons and tons of analog outboard gear to get the vibe in the character. I I just don't want to deal with the tape. And as a blind person, it's particularly frustrating. Winding tape, I it just, and then when I was trying to edit with a razor blade, I mean that's how I learned to cuss because I was constantly cutting myself. It's just, you know, it was just like, this is terrible. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to this nonsense? But uh anyway, but I mean, I there I I think there's a place for everything, you know. And and uh, you know, the interesting thing is that so many people have different philosophies, and some are completely uh antithetical to to mine. And yet, you know, these guys are out, you know, uh um making compelling art. And as you you kind of touched on this earlier, but um uh, you know, I've made great records with absolutely just uh amateur stuff. I mean, I mean, you know, you know, I've I've I've really I mean you know it's like you it can be done. Um I'm not saying it's easy and I'm not saying that it doesn't make you start day drinking, but it is uh, you know, it is it is possible. I I you know I I try to steer clear of um asking questions like what's your favorite microphone and uh what's what sample rate do you like because that's the quickest way to start a brawl. But I do I do want to know um you know from from a from a um you know a a technical perspective, when you when you talk about being and then you you in my mind, just just so this is clear, uh you in my mind are pr are a producer's producer. I mean you're you're saying to me things that uh as if we're reading from the same hymnal here. And uh, and so, you know, but for me, there's there's a really interesting question that that that I get sort of presented with on a regular basis, and I would like to get your take on it. And that is, you know, I love the idea of being with the artist or the band or whatever uh from the beginning of the project, uh, from early demos to songwriting sessions to going to see the band live so I get a feel for what their spirit is and how they project that in a live setting. Can we capture that lightning in the bottle in the studio? If we can, how do we do it? How do we stay it other way? How do we get the best technical things that we want as engineer producers, but at the same time make the humanity upfront? Um, and then there comes this question, and I'm wondering if you faced it and again, what your perspective is. And that is a lot of guys feel like if you've been the producer from the top and you've been there through the mix and all that stuff, they don't want you there for the mastering. Um, they actually, you know, will say, well, I prefer to get fresh ears for the mastering because I think having the same person from start to finish is detrimental. Um, I can understand, you know, the the idea of fresh ears, um, but I also think there's a lot of value uh in having someone there from from start to finish with you in the whole journey that's a partner. What what is your take on that? How do you how do you do that in your productions?

SPEAKER_00 25:26

Well, I mean, it's it varies from project to project. A lot of times I'm handling everything. Uh, you produce it and it gets all the way to the mix stage. And because of the process, I've already framed up a mix, so it's pretty darn close. Right. Then we then we finish it off. And now it's just a mastering process. And the mastering tools are so good now that um I am very comfortable mastering it myself. That being said, if I get a client that says, you know, hey, I think this ought to get mastered with fresh years, I go, cool. Who do I send it to? Um, I have no issue with it. And yeah, almost never has the mastering um screwed up a record that I've done. But it has happened. There was one prog metal record that I did back in the day for Shrapnel that mastering really took the life out of it. And then uh there was another one done by a really well-known guy where he just his ears that day and his feel that day just made that album just to touch on the harsh side. And I think he was just trying to bring out certain textures of the album, and it might have been you got to give grace to these people because you don't know what they were told. Hey, can you bring out this in the mastering process? And then in the process of bringing that out, other undesirable things pop. Right. So, you know, those are the only really two projects, and that was corrected. Then we just went back and just, hey, a little harsh on there. Can we back that down? Like, okay, then it was fixed. Um, but I have no issue. I mean, really, any part of the process, that's one I mean you play and you produce, and you do all the things too. So one of the things about doing so many parts of the process, you know, I can I can do your backing vocals, I can mix the thing, I can write the song for you if you need, and I can master it, and I could I can play most of the instruments. So if again, I'm the rusty Swiss Army knife. So if you get a really sharp blade that wants to take one of those jobs, I have zero resistance to that. I I'm never bothered. It's always exciting. Somebody else wants to do one of these jobs, awesome. Bring it on.

Joey Stuckey 27:40

That's a great attitude. And and you know, I as I say, I I'm like you. I, you know, I guess I feel um I ambivalent's not the right word. But I but you know, it's like look, it I think it's six and one half drugs of the other. I mean, if you want someone else to do it with fresh ears, that's cool. But I think there's value there. Uh I think, but I also think there's value with someone who's been with you for the whole process and really knows the spiritual content, you know, as well. So I think that they can either way can be beneficial. Um, I will say, you know, um, and I have some dear friends that are incredible mastering engineers, and uh, and I'm the first person to tell you, like, hey, this guy will do a better job on this than I will, or whatever. Uh, but um, but I, you know, I do feel like generally speaking, the best mastering engineers, when when the record comes back, it it still sounds like you're mixed, you know. I mean, that's like you know, the guys that don't don't change it significantly, because really we should have done that in the mixing process. If there's some sort of significant, you know, thing that's not being represented, um, you know, then then that that's something we should have addressed before. But uh yeah, I just I just wondered about that because I've always been curious about it, and um, I feel the same way you do. Like, you know, if if somebody else, if you feel like that's what what we need to do, and and you know that there's someone that's you're you're a big fan of, and you know that they're gonna bring you know that X factor to the table that you're looking for, then you know, by all means, you know, please proceed. Do you get a chance to be an artist yourself, uh, or or do you mainly work for other people? Because I love producing, I love being an engineer, I love being an educator, and I wouldn't trade for anything in the world, but it is what pays for my habit to be an artist.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

So I think you just said that perfectly.

Joey Stuckey 29:28

So so so do you do the same thing? Have you released records? I haven't, you know.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

What yeah, I mean, I've released records, I've released singles, I've actually got a bunch of things in the queue just done and sitting there that at some point I need just need to release. And and it's that it's that weird spot as you know, I didn't get into this music business to um to be in the support role. I ended up there. I ended up being passionate about it and realizing how important it is. Like, would Def Leopard ever be Def Leopard without Mutt Lang? You know, that kind of a thing. Oh, for sure not. But but the general public doesn't know Mutt Lang, they know Def Leopard, and they start singing songs. Uh the producer essentially can be the star of the album. That's true. But the name's not on it. And and once I started to really grasp that and really enjoy that process, and again, taking some really good artists and and even sometimes some very mediocre artists and just making them good. Um it's just something magical about that process. But I do, at the end of the day, just like you, I got into this because I love making music myself. So I still love to do that. Uh nobody writes me a check out of the gate for it anymore these days. You know, so you gotta, so you gotta, it's it now I'm paying to create it or I'm just doing it on my own, which is fine because it's what we love to do. Uh, but then again, you know, my motives are different. And after working a 10-hour, 12-hour day working on everybody else's music, it's hard to find the energy and time to really put into your own, especially when the return on the investment is only going to really happen if you put additional energy into marketing and all those kinds of things.

Joey Stuckey 31:13

So that's very true. Do you talk to your artists about what happens after the record's over? Do you talk to them about a plan for marketing? Do you ever get involved in that side of the conversation?

SPEAKER_00 31:25

Always. Yep. Yep. And, you know, I my job is to give them all the information that I have that can help things be successful. So, you know, you want the albums to have the longest lifespan possible, have the greatest success possible. Um, sometimes you're actually just I I attribute it to your career as like a staircase, and you know, your first record is not going to get you to the second floor. You you sometimes just have to keep building album upon album or project or single or whatever it is, thing upon thing that continues to grow. And as long as I can say, okay, here's where you are. This album has got to take you to that next step. So, how do you get there? And here's all the information I have to get you there. And they can do what they want with it. They don't need to follow my advice directly, but I I'm more than happy and excited to give it because I also, it's my baby by the end.

Joey Stuckey 32:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

I want it to do as well as I can.

Joey Stuckey 32:23

Yeah. Yeah, I I have I have been uh heartbroken a time or two when there was an absolutely fabulous record made, and you know, the nobody ever heard it. I'm just like, oh my god. And so, you know, and and it's it's because you know there's a high degree of uh misinformation about our industry and what it is and what it isn't, and the the sort of nuts and bolts of how it actually functions. And, you know, this there's this you know myth. There's several myths that I've uh tried to destroy over my career. Uh, you know, one is the mail the copyright to yourself thing, which just pushes all my buttons. And uh, but the other one, you know, is uh overnight sensation. You know, it's like yeah, it was an overnight sensation, 20 years of the making. Um that's not to say there haven't been a few of those that that have you know happened quick, but um, it it is interesting. And and with with your music or with the client's music, I mean, you know, how how much do you study the landscape of the industry and and spend time, you know, with what I would call continuing education, um, you know, getting out there and and and making it your business to know what's going on. Like, how do you how do you carve out time to do that?

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Well, I mean, that's the kind of thing you're doing research in the off hours and just paying attention. And a lot of times it's conversations, just like we're having today. Yeah. You if if you're really, I hate the word networking, but our circle of friends gets bigger and bigger and bigger in the industry. And then you just have all these killer resources. So you're you're just having conversations about the business. And somebody will be like, hey, have you tried this? Or hey, have you heard about this? And then you know, that knowledge is always going. And it changes, as you know, man. It's the wild west. What works today is not gonna work tomorrow. So I can tell you, you know, use this technique to get uh some traction. And then a year from now, it might be completely invalid that this just doesn't work anymore. And now you have to kind of look in this direction. And I I I hate to send anybody down this chasing trends uh thing. It really needs to be a business-oriented model versus a trend-oriented model. Because even you know, the the the various sites, YouTube and all the others, they change the rules constantly. So if you get heavily invested uh uh in one way of doing things and then they yank the carpet up from underneath it, you've you potentially have lost a lot of hours and money and all that. So it's uh I mean I'm I'm sure you deal with this as well. It's constantly changing. So the best you can do is pay attention and do the next right thing, knowing that it's gonna change.

Joey Stuckey 35:18

Yeah, I I've always tried to share that if you're trying to catch a wave, you're gonna usually be behind it. And by the time you catch it, it it's already not valid anymore. Right. You know, it it's more about doing like I I feel like, and this may be me just being hopeful and uh yeah, I count on a high degree of self-deception to make it through the day. Uh I I know really my wife's in charge and it's not me, but I I pretend that it's the other way around. Um, you know, it's just just just just for my own sanity. But and I'll I'm kidding around, but but really what I'm saying is, you know, if you do what's right for the art and you're consistent in who you are, um you will find traction and you will find people that care about what it is you have to say and and that will be real fans and and that will stay with you and will value you. And and that's you know, that may not be uh 10 million likes on your YouTube channel, but um it will be something that's that's uh important to your career and and and longevity and allow you to do what you want to do. I and it's just you know, I went I went to school, uh, you know, I decided uh at one point to go back to school uh to one of my schools that I always had wanted to attend, but just wasn't able to, which is Berkeley College of Music in Boston. And so I decided to go online. I thought this was great, and it absolutely was a fantastic experience. Um, I met so many incredible people, I learned some stuff. Um, I ended up having some health struggles and had to discontinue my studies because I just didn't have time for everything. And uh sadly, I can tell you that the stuff I learned in 2017, uh, you know, 50% of it's not true anymore. So it's like, you know, it when it comes to marketing and funnels and all these things, like it's just, you know, so much of it's just not true anymore. And uh so it's it's important, I think, to kind of build a team to help you manage that um, if you can, to help you manage all these different assets and and and to you know, stay in touch with people like like that's kind of the reason for this whole podcast is to to illuminate uh thought leaders uh like you and and and others, um, you know, so that we can we can have a community that that shares ideas and and helps people that are really in music for the for you know for the reason that they have to be to be spiritually fulfilled. Um give them every tool that we can to be successful. Uh and I think I think what you said about AI earlier is really important. And it's it's that's something that I talk a lot about um in the um in on this podcast, I will admit it. Uh I'm a little obsessed and a little offended. So I gotta say, I mean, you know, the thing that I think AI has a lot of uh positives. Uh but what I will say is when people like the CEO of Sudos comes out and says, Oh, it's too hard to learn an instrument, nobody wants to do that, I'm like, wow. That just aggravates me. But uh anyway, I won't, uh yeah, uh it pushes all my buttons. I I love the um I love the idea uh of of how intimately you get involved with the client and how much of your own heart and soul and and passion you put into it. And I think that's absolutely mission critical um, you know, to to have a partner that can help you do that. What is do you normally track at your studio or do you like to travel around to different studios? Or what's kind of the normal process? If somebody wanted to work with with the Great Lonnie Park, what would the what would that look like? What's the you know, what's the what's the end, you know, what is your kind of normal operating uh procedure?

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Well, it it changes up quite a bit, but I would say that 80% of the work is done remote. Um I do like to be present for vocal sessions. I I love for them to be here at my studio. Uh I like the vocalist to actually be standing no further than 10 feet away from me in a room. Uh but I mean it's really varies from project to project because you know it the days of the rehearsed band that all loads up the van and goes to the studio and sets up and you mic up the kit and you I'm not saying it's over, it's not over, but it's not often. Um so most of what I do is we're gonna be tracking the basics of the song, setting up a project, and then the rest is brought in remotely. If I need a guitar track, maybe I call you and you drop a guitar. And and if we need some backing vocals that I cannot do, or maybe we're looking for a different texture, I'll call one of my other people. So it's it's like one of those things where I'm able to do literally three to five projects within a day in various stages because we're always making forward momentum. But a lot of times it is I'm waiting for tracks from somebody or I'm waiting for some input from somebody else and just constantly moving that way. So I I know that's not an actual straight answer, but you know, if if you're a singer-songwriter, for example, I might ask you to track your guitar and your vocal to a click track and send me the tracks.

unknown 40:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

And then I'll pull in the tracks and then I'll just kind of mess with them and make an arrangement and send it back to you and go, how do you feel about this? And then, hey, let's change those four words and we'll massage the song until it's arranged and to a click the way we'd like, and then we start building the song up from there.

Joey Stuckey 41:03

I'm a big fan of click tracks. Um, and I had I had someone ask me the other day, literally, uh, say to me, and which I thought was really interesting and also flattering, like, dude, your sense of time is so good. Why do you need a click track? Because I don't need a click track for that. But as a blind person, if everything is cut to the click and everybody has the same exact reference, editing becomes a lot easier for me because I can't do it by looking at transient markers. So I can't, I can't look at the grid. I can't look at the transient. I can't say, hey, the bass guitar is, you know, 30-second note ahead of the kick drum, make a clip and drag those together, you know, so that the kick and the the bass have the same attack. I can't see to do that. So if it's not cut to a click, it editing becomes uh it's still possible, but it takes forever for a blind man. You gotta drag, listen, drag, listen, drag, listen. You know, so it's like it's just like so I I like the click for that reason. Um, and and I think that you know more artists, you know, definitely should should do that. That being said, I do also enjoy uh and I have a jazz project that I did in 2019. And I'm like you, I've got stuff ready to go. It's just kind of sitting around. Um I've got to mix the stuff, but it's it's kind of it's ready. And uh I had a jazz project in that I did in 2019 or something like that. Um, you know, and I just brought everybody in for a weekend and we just played. And and and you know, uh and we just uh we didn't really, we weren't really worrying about clicks and stuff. And we some sometimes we cut with a click, sometimes we wouldn't. It just kind of depended what which you know what made us feel better. But I do enjoy that, you know, spontaneity of uh a bunch of guys in a room just you know doing doing whatever and feeding off each other and that life. But as you say, that's you know, that's not as prevalent as it once was. And and there's no, you know, there's some wonderful things about what we can do with the internet. And, you know, my one of my favorite secret weapons is my dear friend Randall Bramlett, who is uh one of the greatest keyboard players and sax players uh ever to walk the face of the earth. Uh and he he you know used to play with Traffic and Steve Winwood, and he's written some songs that Monty Rait's recorded, and he's done all these really wonderful things. And he lives, you know, two and a half hours from me, and I can I can call him and say, I need this, and then send him the track, and you know, 10 minutes later he's giving me 4,000 keyboard tracks that are all awesome, you know, and then and then you're like, oh, this is an embarrassment of riches. Like, which I don't even pick one of these. But um I do love, I do love you, love that. But I like I say, I'm I I feel like, you know, um I do prefer if we can all work together uh as much as possible. Do you use like real time collaboration tools or do you mainly because that's becoming like a cool thing that actually happens now with companies like audio movers and people like that? Uh

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Yeah, they do a little bit of that, not a whole lot.

Joey Stuckey 44:03

Yeah, I'm still I'm still mainly sending out like stems or rough mixes and here, you know, drop this in your doll and play to it.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

Yeah. Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 44:11

That kind of that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

And a lot of that's just efficiency stuff because again, you know, back in the day, if I wanted you to play guitar on my record, I'd have to get you here to my studio. Right. And then I got to schedule the time, and then you've got to come in, you got to set up your guitar, you gotta mic the thing up, get the tone. And then there's two of us tied up the whole time getting this done. Whereas now I can have a team of people working independently, and none of us are overlapping. Now audio movers is bring brings us back to okay, now two of us can work together at the same time. Right. Which is that's great. I love I love the tools and and I do enjoy working that way. But um still I would say more often than not, unless that is something that the client wants to do, uh, most of the time I'm just we're just doing it remote.

Joey Stuckey 44:57

I I love the I mean one of the things I did I did a track for for uh someone the other day, uh a Grammy winning friend um uh of ours that you that you probably know. I'm I don't want to spoil the any any details of the record, so I won't say which record, but I played I played a guitar track the other day uh because it's not out yet. I don't know if I'm supposed to talk about it or not. Uh but the uh I I did a guitar track. Well, I did like a bunch of guitar tracks, actually. Uh I've said like 15 tracks of guitar. And um and uh one of the things that was interesting to me, and I'm just curious as your like how you feel about this as a producer engineer. Um I am a tube guy with guitar. That's kind of what I'm I mean. I'm known, I mean, I can play anything you want, but left to my own devices. I I like tube amps and I like mics as opposed to direct you know stuff. And uh, you know, I like a I like a little room in my uh in my mic. Not a lot, not not so much that you can't tweak it how you need it, but uh, you know, I don't mind a little room tone uh in the in the in the amp mic. But at any rate, uh I just tend not to like the DI of an electric guitar, especially if there are effects on it, you know, distortion or whatever. I just tend not to find it of value. Uh so I didn't bother to have one. And lo and behold, the client wanted it. And I was like, oh my god. And I was like, never again will I not track with the DI just just for safety. But uh, but anyway, yeah, so they wanted they wanted the DI, and I was like, oh my God. So how much do you get into like the technical, like, hey, Joey, can you use X guitar with X amp, with X mic, or do you just leave that up to the session player? Or like what's your philosophy of that?

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Well, if I'm looking for something specific tonally, I'll let them know. And it's I mean, I'll let the guitar player figure out how to get there. Gotcha. Um, if you're working with guys that you really trust, you know, just go, I'm looking for uh you know, Stephen Ray kind of vibe, or I'm looking for whatever it might be. Give me some some BB King in there and whatever, and then I trust them to feel it out, and oftentimes they'll bring something to the table I hadn't thought of, and it just elevates it even more. So I just leave it open and I'm not gonna tell you what amp to use and how to mic it. And uh I could care less, I'm looking for the end result, and I I don't care if you use a modeler, whatever works for you. To me, there are no wrong ways of doing it unless it sounds like crap.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Well, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

If you get a good sound and it gets done, man, I'm in. Come here.

Joey Stuckey 47:39

Yeah. Well, and that's that's kind of like what I over the years, you know, when you first get started, you or at least I did. I don't know what I don't know if you did, but when I first got started, I kind of micromanaged things a little bit. Um and you know, sometimes one has to, uh, but generally what I try to do is when someone says to me, uh, what do you want on this track? I'm like, be you and it'll be right. And I called you because you were the right solution for this thing. So I don't, you know, I don't have to really give a lot of instruction uh because I I picked you specifically because I knew you would be the right person for the job. So you know, I don't have to, I don't, I tend not to I've tried to work you know smarter that way uh and not have to get down. I mean, we can get down the weeds if we have to, and and if if I feel like I have to, I will. But you know, generally, like you know, if I ask Randall Bramlett to play, it's like, well, I want you. Just do what you do, it'll be fine.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

You know, well, and just like you, often we get called in on the other end. So, you know, we're on the receiving end of that too. Whereas producer or artist might say, Hey man, I want you to play guitar on my thing. And we're gonna ask, what are you looking for? But we're not asking them, hey, use an ES335 through a twin.

Joey Stuckey 48:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

They might say, I'm looking for that. You know, in my mind, it's kind of that 335 through a twin vibe, but you you know, you do you.

Joey Stuckey 49:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. I I'm gonna I'm gonna start moving towards the end of our conversation, but I do want to ask you, um, I have I have never met Stuart Copeland. Uh, I am an enormous fan, but I did know his brother Ian. And um and Ian was a very dear friend of mine when I was in my 20s. And uh, and and I have um he actually has some ties to my state of Georgia uh that not a lot of people know about. And um, I tried desperately to get him inducted into the Georgia Music Hall of Fame and was not successful in doing that. But uh he had taken an interest in me as a young player and was interested in trying to do some artist development and some stuff like that, and then he passed away um you know pretty unexpectedly. Uh, but I wonder, you know, you talked early in our conversation about synchronicity and uh and that record. And of course, there's a lot of uh uh seems there's a lot of angst uh that went into the making of that record from from some of the public statements from the band. But what was it like working with this guy that literally changed your perspective on music and you know, even maybe ethics uh from the sense that you were listening to music that, you know, had been maybe described as unholy or unhealth unhealthy. Um what was it like working with him to bring that full circle? That has got to be an amazing experience.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

You know, so I I'm sure you've had these moments in your career. Again, I came from this small town where being a successful musician was just like saying, you know, I can jump up and touch the moon. It just wasn't possible. Yeah. Uh and so to uh find myself in a situation where this impossible dream I'm kind of living it. And I remember uh I'm in the Abbey Road Studios and Stuart walks into the studio for the first time there, and I'd worked with him on another record. So he walks into the room, he's surrounded by guys with cameras and a little bit of an entourage, and he looks up and he sees me and he goes, Lonnie, and he runs over and gives me a big hug. And then we just kind of get to work, you know, good to see you and all that. And I I sit down and these are the moments, and this is what I'm saying, I'm sure you can relate to this. You the moment where you sit down and you actually take a breath and you take a snapshot. And first of all, you say, How the hell did I get here? You know, who let the kid from Freeville in? And then there's that other moment where you just uh it's almost a spiritual moment where you're just so grateful that somehow all the twists and turns of your life, all the ups and downs, the things you've gained and lost and have brought you to a place where something special like that happens. And and to actually have Stuart Copeland you know call you out across the room and give you a big hug. Whereas you know, that 20 some or 30 some years earlier you were uh you were talking about how evil his music was. Um it's just it's incredible. And he he is a very gracious guy and a lot of fun and spent some time hearing the stories about the police and and all that. So it's it was very special. It was it's magical. Um actually was involved in three separate projects with him.

Joey Stuckey 52:39

Oh, that's a lot. Okay. I know that Ricky did something with him. Yeah, we did a couple records with him.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

Yeah, two. One was actually um based on his police deranged orchestral versions of police songs, and then we did a global version of that, which was really special because now I'm not only not only am I working with Stuart Copeland, who I can tell this story to, but I'm actually doing songs off of synchronicity. Yeah. Uh which is even funnier. That's awesome. Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 53:07

I mean, it's amazing that that happened to you. That is so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Yeah, yeah.

Joey Stuckey 53:13

And and did you did you feel, I mean, how did I mean here's the thing. So I I got a chance to to study with Alan Parsons a little bit. Amazing. And and and uh and I I had a real and by the way, recording Abbey Road is a bucket list of nine, so totally jealous that that happened. Um but I just want to be, I just want to touch the wall, you know. I don't I just feel can I get a little Paul McCartney funk off the wall or something, you know. But uh I I I when I got a chance to work with Alan, you know, I I don't really say anything if I don't have something to say. I mean, I just you know, I think that's a smart move. And um, but it's you know, it's uh I won't say intimidating because that's the wrong word, but it is uh surreal to be in a room with someone that you've admired for for such a long time and you know who you would be nice to be considered a colleague and and you know, and that kind of thing. And so uh I I made the decision um that though I was a little apprehensive or nervous about it, uh I was like, you know, I'm just gonna do what I always do, and um and and you know, he can like it or hate it or whatever, and but at least it's honest, you know. And uh turns out, you know, we're we're friends. And and uh, you know, I don't I don't see him all the time or anything like that, you know, but I certainly can reach out to him via email and say hello. And uh I have been privileged to actually have been of service to him uh on some recording decisions and some things like that. And and you know, he he sent me a video message for something I celebrate every year, which is Joey Stucky Alive Day, which is uh the you you've done a message for me. Uh my lovely wife arranges these things, and uh it's it's the day I beat the brain tumber that's supposed to kill me when I was a kid. So we do a free concert every year in my town uh to invite everyone to come out and reconnect as neighbors and music enthusiasts and to celebrate each other's triumphs and victories. And Alan sent me a an alive day message, and in this message uh he said, and it's on YouTube, so you can verify uh Joey Stucky has the best ears in the music business. And um uh the thing about that, I am not going to say that it's true, but what I will say is that's my mo that's the thing that I can go back to sometimes. I'm like, wow, today was really hard. Uh why am I doing this? And then I can go back and think, Alan Parsons believes in me, you know, and it's and it's like it's it's this cool thing. I said all of that to say, um, you know, how did you it was hard for me at first to get past my respect enough to actually get in there and get the work done? Uh so with Stuart Copeland being such a uh in my mind, a watershed kind of element in your life, uh, with the synchronicity record and that role that it played in your life, like what was that like for you, like getting in there and get the work done, and you're like, you know, I guess trying to forget or or or not not go crazy with the fact that it's Stuart Copeland that you're talking to. I mean, what tell tell me a little bit about that experience?

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Yeah, well, fortunately, I mean the the interactions were great, and working in the studio was great. Uh the first thing we did with him was during COVID, so it was almost uh, well, it was 100% remote. Um, and a lot of video calls and all that. But the actual work itself was me alone in a room staring at Stuart Copel's tracks. And there is that kind of, and I had this same issue. I've worked with a bunch of people in that type of way, like Steve Gadd's drum tracks, looking at his tracks, and just going, all right, what am I there's what I would do to most drummers in the world, it's almost sacrilege to do that to yeah, I can't do that to Steve Gadd. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, fix his thing. And like with Stuart Colbow, I was like, I can't fix his thing. And but then you go, but can I? And then I reverted to just what I do. Let me just do what I do, yeah. And just forget that it's Stuart Colbert, forget that it's Steve Gadd, forget that it's all these people. Um and just do your job.

SPEAKER_02 57:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:52

And then when you're done doing your job, if they send you the thumbs up, you're good. Um you don't have to explain how you got there.

SPEAKER_02 58:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

So it it that's what I did with Stork. I mean, I I don't know, uh I've never told him this, and I'm now I'm saying it on a podcast. Um there was some times where I took his drums, his actual drums, and I triggered them.

SPEAKER_02 58:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:17

Because I I didn't love the tone that I was getting, and I couldn't really get that Stuart sound. And so I would I would find a sample that was close to the drum he was hitting and tune it so it was almost identical, and then blend it with his original just to get that whole thing. But the whole idea is it's now it sounds great, but it's you know, it's a mix of sample with his real performance.

Joey Stuckey 58:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

Uh so is that sacrilege? Well, you know, if you tell people beforehand, here's what I'm gonna do, they'll go, No, you can't do that. But if you just do your job, and then when they push play, that goes, Yeah, it sounds great. That's George Cobel playing the drums. It sounds amazing. That's all that matters.

Joey Stuckey 59:00

That is so cool. I I have I have um uh I I will confess to you, since you confess to me. Uh we're we're having we're having, you know, I'm I'm I I I will confess that I have uh uh pitch corrected a few vocalists without their knowledge.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

I do it all the time.

Joey Stuckey 59:18

Yeah, I mean, you know, sometimes you have to save them from themselves. And and and there was one time, and and you know, uh that there was a gentleman who came in the studio raving about his bass stamp and how it was the best thing that ever happened to him, and and uh, you know, and and it it just we had to mic it, we had to do this, we had to it had to be a big part of the sound. And okay, okay, cool. And then I get it all said, I was like, oh my god, this thing sounds awful. And uh so I knew the DI was the better choice, but the client just refused for whatever reason. Uh just could not admit that. So I uh I changed the label on the tracks and and labeled the DI as the amp, and the amp is the DI. And uh and I got to use the DI, and he's like, oh, talk to that amp, it's gonna be great. Yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:11

It really is.

Joey Stuckey 1:00:12

So I mean, you know, you some days you just have to save people from themselves. But I I mean, you know, I I I just felt like uh that had to be done. But I just think that it's so cool um, you know, that you that you have had um the these wonderful opportunities to share your talent uh with people from every every level of the industry, from the starters to the Stuart Copelands, and that's amazing. And um, I I love your work ethic. I I think I think the you know the way you approach this from a from a mental and spiritual standpoint is absolutely the reason that people uh are excited to to hear records you've done. And um don't the only thing I want to close on is is do you have besides Stuart? Because we've talked a lot about Stuart, so that's enough of that. Uh, but uh the do you have a a record that was a watershed moment for you where you realize like, hey, I this is really what I can do, and this is this is what I'm supposed to do. And and uh this record has proven to me that my courage to get out here and do this thing is is the right call. Is there like a watershed record you did that that you feel that way about?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

I hope that one's coming. Love it. Yeah, I mean, honestly, manual, like you uh and I'm sure you gotta feel this way. Uh most musicians and artists that I talk to, you know, you get on stage and you're the most confident, accomplished person in the world. But off stage and in your own personal space and in between your ears and your head, there are so many days where you just go, I'm I'm I'm stuck at this. What am I doing? I'm I you always questioning, and there's always somebody that does a better job. And then there's other days where you're like, man, I am rocking this thing. I'm really proud of this work. And then you come back three days later and you're like, oh, and it's this roller coaster of constant, I can do better. I can do better. I gotta do better. Yeah. You're just learning and learning and learning. And I hope that the day I die, I'm still trying to do better. And yeah, I don't actually have a record where I go, that that's the that's the moment, that's the pinnacle. That's a good thing. That's I think I'm not makes me excited about what's coming to.

Joey Stuckey 1:02:28

Yeah, I think that's a great idea. And you know, I I have to tell you, I mean, you know, this sort of idea of imposter syndrome or or whatever you want to call it. I mean, it it's the thing is when you care as deeply as we do. Um, you know, I I wake up and the re besides my family, the reason I get out of bed in the morning is to make records. I mean, I like that's why I'm on two feet. Like it's it's you know, uh, and and for me as a brain tuber survivor, there are there's a a host of things that I have to do every day to be functional. I take, I'm not being hyperbolic here. I take like 40 pills a day, and it's just this whole thing. And I'm always I have I have tons of doctor's appointments. Now, I'm not sick, I'm just trying to simulate things I don't have so I can function. And there are days that that is really difficult. Uh, and and you just never know what kind of day it's gonna be. But the reason that I'm always able to conquer uh uh eventually uh and get up there and get the work done and forget uh all my limitations and forget, you know, if I'm in discomfort or if I'm tired or from whatever, you know, it's all because of this amazing beauty and power of music to lift everything it touches. And so, you know, I mean, it is one of those things where you say, you know, because you you and I care so much about this, this amazing thing, um that you you will, I think the sign of a professional as someone goes, what am I, you know, that does have those days of questions that did say, hey, I I gave it my best today, and it wasn't quite enough. It wasn't it wasn't quite where I needed to be. Um, but then you also, so you you have that thirst for improvement, but then you also have to temper that with grace that says, you know, uh I will get there, uh, and and uh we will find a way to make this happen. And you know, there are days I'm like, I mean, I literally said to my assistant the other day, who writes this nonsense? Like, yeah, well, why have I done this to myself? Why did I make this so hard? You know, and I I've written some ridiculous guitar part that's insane. It's like no one in their right mind would even try to play this nonsense. Uh, and so you know, and so that's when you're like, oh my god, what am I doing? And then, you know, part of me wants to go, I'll just simplify it. And then the other part was like, nah, you can do it. But it's but it is, it is a struggle, it is a balancing act, and I think that's what makes it such a joy because it's constant discovery. And, you know, Lonnie, you've got an inquisitive mind, as we have established uh through the podcast. And for me, and I don't know, you know, I can only speak to my own experience, but I can't see. And I believe our brains are like pattern recognition machines and they want information to chew on. And um I I have to constantly like I'm you're sitting here now looking at whatever is in front of you, and your brain's kind of processing that. Uh that's not happening for me. So I am constantly running my mouth or playing music so that there's some sort of content pouring into my empty brain. So, you know, that's why I love the quest for knowledge and the quest for music, and I and I think it keeps me motivated and alive. And you have certainly shared some amazing inspirational stories with us today, and a secret or two as well, uh, which we which we are very grateful for. So uh, you know, the the the uh the thing I'd say is uh if you if you have the chance to have Alani Park uh in your life, you should do that. I appreciate you being so gracious with your time and talent. And uh is there anything you want to say before I let you go?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:13

Um all I would say is that most people that come to me asking questions of how to be successful and how to you know get it done, which is what most artists want to do. The answer isn't easy. And just you can't forget why you got into it for the first place. You've talked so much about like you get up every day to do music. And I've talked about how the everyday I just want to get better. And that has nothing to do with this is it gonna make a million dollars, is it gonna sell a million records? It really is about do it for the right reasons. And then almost every cool break I've had in my career, I couldn't apply it for. It it just from working hard and moving forward, that's when it's happened. And I'm sure you've experienced the same thing. So all I would say is I want to encourage all of us out there. I know each of us deal with our own challenges every day. The the mental health portion of fighting our own demons, just keep doing it for the right reasons and we'll never be disappointed.

Joey Stuckey 1:07:20

Absolutely beautifully said, my friend. And uh, and I think that is so true. There are there are no shortcuts. Um, there's just being prepared to to to uh to leap at the opportunity when it comes around. So that's that's you know, that's that's the that's the thing. I have not had uh I haven't done any gold records or Grammy records, but uh, but uh I have uh kept myself out of trouble. So that's a win.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:47

You may quit the mark. I don't know about that.

Joey Stuckey 1:07:49

Listen, I I'm I'm trying. I you know, it's just uh just uh people say uh how do you stay in the business? I'm too dumb to quit. But no, it's it's a joy and it's a privilege to speak to you by a friend. And you can always find more inspiration, tips, tricks, insider stuff uh here on the podcast. We are so fortunate to know so many talented people that give of their time selflessly. So do check out our other episodes. Um, and uh, and and there's uh one in particular I think that you should really check out on Artificial Intelligence and the Law, which is a hot button topic right now. You can find it wherever you find your podcast, or go to www.stuckonsound.com.