Joey Stuckey 0:00

Welcome once again to the Stuck on Sound Podcast. Man, I have one of my favorite people. And I have to tell you, um, he's he's a renaissance man. That's the thing about him. He's he's absolutely does everything. And and uh it's my it's my good friend Larry. And you know, Larry, I'll tell you something. I'm gonna I'm gonna admit something to you uh publicly here. My screen reader pronounces your name Viella, but that may be wrong, so you correct me if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Well, in America in America, where I was born and raised, it's Villela. Villela, okay. And when I came to Italy, everybody said it's Villella. Oh, well, that sounds that sounds even better. Yeah. So my we we are always being corrected over here how to pronounce our Italian name.

Joey Stuckey 0:54

So we're learning is your is your heritage Italian? Is that like is that where your family like hails from?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Yes, my grandfather and grandmother emigrated to America in 1901, and I uh came back uh to my parent and grandparents' country uh just over three years ago. Uh we moved our adult children, and uh my wife and I and our two kids all became Italian citizens.

Joey Stuckey 1:23

That is absolutely amazing. That's absolutely amazing. And you know, I I I think that it's so cool that you did that uh because I mean, you know, it's important that we we make our our space where we want to be, and we're places that bring us joy. And and uh, you know, that's just really, really important to to to to be able to experience life in the way you want. And uh, I think that's amazing. I think that's so cool that you had the ability to do that and to to bring your whole family. You know, my wife and I um uh we I don't we don't really know which way it is. We live with my mom and dad, or they live with us. We're not sure which way it is. But we all we all have like a real big house with plenty of room, and and uh we we love you being together and and and the support network. And I think that's cool that you were able to bring your whole family over. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Yeah, it's uh I miss my band. I I I I gotta admit, I had a five-piece jazz band that I played with regularly, just a pickup band, not uh you know anything fancy, but uh that's the one true uh misgiving I have about I haven't I haven't found a new band. So well, let's talk about that.

Joey Stuckey 2:34

So you have such an interesting life and story, and you and I have had the great privilege of spending some time together and chatting about this before, but we want to share it with the podcast listeners. So the thing I always ask my guests, like the first thing, is the you know, the origin story. Like what brought you into the music business? So tell me, tell me when that happened for you and and what that meant.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Well, I mean, I I'm a lifelong musician. I took piano lessons when I was five, I took guitar lessons when I was 10. Uh, I, you know, I just have been passionate about both those instruments for you know 60 years, more or less. And uh so I I came into uh you know my years uh you know all growing up singing in church choir and singing in uh madrigal choirs, barbershop quartets, men's glee club, chorus. I mean, I was uh I was in four different vocal groups in in high school. And so singing and playing musical instruments has been just the core of my life. Uh you know, I I uh headed off to school the day after I graduated high school in Everett, Washington. I jumped on a plane to New York City with 75 bucks in my pocket, a guitar in one hand and uh a typewriter in the other, and I was off to conquer the Big Apple and uh spent a few years at Columbia University and realized New York was just not, coming from a small town, it was just not friendly to me. Uh oddly enough, my roommate at Columbia's father owned the milestone record label. So we used to go down to the village and hang out with jazz musicians, and that kind of changed me from being a folk guy to suddenly having a lifelong adult life passion for the jazz genre. And uh I I defected to Boston uh in uh 69, and uh and I think the real origin story started when I went to work at Kramer Hi-Fi and a couple of my uh colleagues uh were helping a gentleman build a recording studio and Renaissance Studios in Boston uh was the project, and and uh we had all this equipment and no studio yet. So uh one of our group, uh Sam Rivers III, and his father, Sam Rivers Jr. is a well-known sax player, played with you know everybody from you know Herbie Hancock on down. And so he uh got us a chance to go test our equipment. Uh uh I was going to school with this group to we we set up a sort of a makeshift recording engineering school with a bunch of experts and you know ran around Boston and the greater Boston area recording pipe organs and pianos and harpsichords or whatever we could get our hands on. And one day uh our instructor came and said, We're gonna go down and spend a week at the jazz workshop uh recording this new guy. Well, what's his name? Oh, you've never heard of him. Well, well, what's his name? Chick Korea. So I spent a week with my colleagues recording Chick Korea's circle group, which is avant-garde. Anthony Braxton played everything from sopranino saxophone to contrabass clarinet. Uh Holland was the bassist. Uh uh Barry Altschul was the drummer, and uh Chick played the piano. He played the piano with drumsticks. You know, he did all kinds of crazy things. This was the wildest band. And so that sort of, you know, was my uh get thrown in the deep end of the pool moment in the professional recording field, which you know, 55 years later I'm still involved in.

Joey Stuckey 6:58

So so did you I'm interested in this sort of makeshift school idea. So so did you attend uh that school or did you sort of start it, or how did that work?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yeah, so George Lilly, uh, who's the great-grandson of Eli Lilly, was the was the uh patron of this Renaissance studios, and he hired people who were experts in the field to teach us. And so uh Chuck Angie was the sort of the our our group leader, he was he was the most brilliant guy, the smartest guy in the you know room. And uh, you know, he we hired musicians and recording engineers to take us and and uh do field recordings around the Boston area and learn how to work. Uh George had an MCI board, we had Scully tape machines, we built a remote uh uh Longevine mixer board, um, and and we had a bunch of Neumann U87s and some Sony C37s and you know the usual complement of dynamic mics. And so we just went around trying to figure out well, how do you record a pipe organ? I mean, it's got a 32 uh foot pipe. Do you get 32 feet away? Do you get you know, what's the half wave? Do you have a lot of things? All good questions, yeah. You know, so we learned by doing. Uh and having but you know, having a guy who's you know, I used to joke, George was not born with a silver spoon in his mouth, his was platinum, you know. And having having a guy like that be, you know, the the the patron, and then having a guy like Chuck Angie be the savant, you know, the it was just a magical experience. And getting to record Chick uh was transformative. Then Sam Rivers Jr., uh the father of one of our colleagues, uh Sam Rivers III and I took the equipment down, and the two of us recorded a couple of tracks for the album Hughes by Sam Rivers Jr. and was on ABC Impulse. So I like to say my first major label album was 55 years ago and has all been downhill since then.

Joey Stuckey 9:29

Well, so was was the ultimate goal? I mean, it's amazing to have this patron to have this studio, was his ultimate goal to train you guys to to work for him, or was he just giving you the gift of knowledge?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

No, he we were his team. Uh, you know, I unfortunately there were just too many guys ahead of me in the uh the the pecking order. Uh so uh you know there there were like three guys that were sort of the inner team, and I I was kind of uh Sam Rivers III and I were kind of the uh outliers. And so I don't Sam went on to be a doctor, he's an MD. Uh I realized I I was just I was gonna be an assistant engineer forever if I stayed there. I was never gonna rise to the top, and and I just didn't have the time uh or or the you know finances to to hang out for a year while they built the studio, not knowing if I had a job. So uh I like to say I spent a winter in Boston and the next summer I spent in Phoenix. Uh went from interesting.

Joey Stuckey 10:48

So did you hang out your own shingle or did you did you go work for somebody else in the ship?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Well, no, I went to I went to Phoenix just to just for a change of pace and a change of climate, and my dad lived there, and I uh growing up I hadn't spent a lot of time with him. So I went and uh I don't know how much you want to get into this. I mean by day I worked in a waterbed store. By night I had an FM radio show. I love it. So I did I did a I I had about a hundred Blue Note and Riverside and CTI jazz albums. So I went down to uh KXTC FM at midnight and and spun my own albums into the wee hours of the night and then got up the next morning and sold water beds.

Joey Stuckey 11:37

I love it. Well, you know, you've you've got the uh you got the voice for it, my friend. You've got the voice for some midnight radio magic. I can I can hear it. I can hear it now. Uh and that's that's really interesting that um that you were able to go and and play you know your record collection. Um and so uh when I first started, um, you know, I had uh uh a fairly encyclopedic knowledge of of music. Um, I knew a lot of a lot of music because it was very important to me, so I listened to a lot of music. And uh and so my my collection of CDs and and and uh cassettes is uh ridiculous. It still is. Uh I have to confess to you that I'm you know, there's there's people in our world today that want to bring the cassette back. And I can tell you, I do not miss the cassette. I don't know why you want to do that. But anyway, uh but anyway, yeah, so I I I really I really get what you're saying. I mean, and and it sounds like you were able to develop uh a real education uh on jazz when you when you were lived in New York and you went down to the to the clubs and saw that. And then you when you when you went to Boston and got the and then you got the chance to record chicks. So it sounds like you really found a place that you belonged and uh and that you were really, really, you know, pers you know being part of that in multiple ways. Um how long did the radio show last and what happened next?

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Well, it was pretty short-lived. Uh, you know, I I would say a year and a half. I I was in Phoenix for about three years, but the radio show only lasted a year and a half. I uh the the owner of the station was in his 70s, which I laugh about because I'm in my 70s now, but I, you know, I was in my mid-20s then, and he had this saying, he said, well, you know, jazz has to have uh uh melody, harmony, and rhythm. And and he was a big band fan, and that's so interesting because drivetime was handled by a guy who played big band music, and then his son took over the airwaves at about eight o'clock, eight or nine o'clock at night and played uh more modern jazz. But I'm I'm I'm saying like, you know, uh Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker and and maybe some Miles and but but hardly any cold train. And then I came on at midnight and started playing you know the jazz of the 60s and the 70s, and uh mostly the 60s, the you know, that I grew up with uh in New York and in Boston. And I made the mistake one night in the wee hours of the morning of playing Odyssey of Visca. Uh um and uh the the owner called me into the studio uh the next day, and he said, I bet you don't think I stay up late at night. But I heard your show last night. Uh of course that's Wayne Shorter, right? And and and I and whatever you were playing did not have uh melody, harmony, and and uh rhythm, and you're fine. Oh my gosh! Oh so years later, uh thanks to my good friend John Pettitucci, I got to go hang out backstage uh uh with Wayne Shorter, and I I I I gave I told him I I took one for the team story. Yeah. And about five, you know, five minutes into sitting down with him, somebody walks up with Odyssey of Isca asking him for a signature. Oh my gosh. He wanted to get his album signed. And he's going, that was the that was the album. That was it.

Joey Stuckey 15:30

That that would have triggered me. I would have been does did Wayne realize that he really should give you a little cash for losing your job over his record.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

No, I was just thrilled to meet him. He's such an interesting man. Oh my gosh. One of the greatest. I was sorry to see him pass. And uh, I mean, his he uh, you know, he people think of him as playing with Weather Report and playing with Miles, the famous sessions he did, but he was an amazing composer and he had a very modern, uh, you know, almost like classical modern approach to composition. And I I mean the the the guy was brilliant beyond. Um I I can see I can see why Miles used to say, come over on Saturday and bring the book. Because he had this book of songs he started writing when he was in the Navy and continued on for, you know, so uh, you know, I think of the song Footprints and the other things. And uh I think I I just to be able to sit with him for 20 minutes and talk, uh that was far more reward than you know anything I could have ever wanted.

Joey Stuckey 16:48

Well, you know, and I'm sure you've heard this record. I I think I got the name right. It's uh without a net. Um and uh it's that Wayne Shorter like concert where the band kind of walks out and like plays stuff with no real preparation. And uh, if you haven't heard it, it was one of the last things he did. And it's just I mean, it's just crazy good.

unknown 17:09

It's just crazy good.

Joey Stuckey 17:11

It's so interesting. Uh I I love it. Um, it's it's you know, it's it's but he was he was one of the greats. Now you seem to have uh, and we've got so many things to talk about, but you you I'm saving, I'm saving one for last. So so uh uh I'm I'm I'm gonna get to to something. But uh right now, uh did you study theory and composition? Did you did you study that with with your musical education, or did you mainly play by ear, or what's you know, what's what is your uh Well, I yeah, the answer is both.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Uh but but I lived on Symphony Road in Boston and I I like to say I I I got secondhand I got secondhand in education from Berkeley School of Music uh because I took guitar and theory lessons from students at Berkeley and and uh you know did the uh um uh Lydian chromatic uh lesson plan. And so, you know, I I I'm I mean don't ask me to quote Walter Piston. I don't have a classical, you know, compendium of theoretical knowledge, but uh in the jazz parlance, uh, you know, I I understand upper structures, I understand, you know, uh altered scales and and you know, some so, you know, I I I would I would classify myself as an intermediate uh level, but a lifelong learner always trying to acquire more knowledge. I I just you know I'm 77 and I have a learner's mind, and and I I I try to, you know, never wake up thinking I know anything. I like to get up every morning and realize how ignorant I am and how uh how much thirst you know I I love that. I love that. And and and it's everything from astrophysics to music. I mean, I'm oh yeah, I'm hungry for I I'm hungry for science, I'm hungry for art, you know, and uh, you know, and and trying to get my 10,000 steps in every day.

Joey Stuckey 19:27

Well, listen, I I think that's beautiful because I feel the same way. I I just I want to explore, you know. I I really want to just just be in every nook and cranny the universe has to offer. And uh I love to learn about history and science and physics and music and and and you know, all these things. And um, and I think that's really important. And you're right. I mean, you can you can be a professional, uh, you can be even somewhat of an expert. But when you stop learning, um, you know, that's a problem. I mean, that's that's you never want to you never want to reach that point where your mind's not uh questing for more information or refinement of the things you already know. Uh you know, all those things I think are really brilliant. And that's that's really, I think, one of the reasons um that you have been able to uh you know be uh all the cool places that that you've been uh is that that that that attitude to keep that forefront. I love it. I think that's so great. And you know, as a brain tumor survivor, I am well aware of uh time being finite and making the most of every moment is absolutely uh my one of my prime driving motivations. Uh the the I guess the the next question I have for you that will lead us uh down a certain path. You play guitar and piano. Now that's remarkable because uh I'm a guitar player, and and as a blind man, you know, Stevie and Ray uh have made everybody think that blind guys are piano players. And and people that don't know me, they find out I'm in music. Oh, will you come play piano? Uh no, I will not come play piano because you don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it. Uh I am I am what's called low side adequate, meaning that I was required to take piano and music school and I play well enough to get a B and get out of piano lab. And I regret not spending more time on that now that I'm older. But at the time I had stuff, I had sax players to date, I had stuff to do. Uh, you know, and I was like, something's gotta suffer. It's gonna be the piano. So um, but anyway, you know, I I I play the piano in the studio only when it's too dumb to pay somebody else to do it. Uh so and I cheat. I I I slow the tempo down, do all this, you know. Uh, and so so it actually sounds half decent, but it it's all A lie. So I'm joking with you, but I mean, you know, well, do you consider yourself more a guitar player or more a piano player? Because I've always thought of you as a piano player because you know so much about uh the instrument. And I always that's kind of what I always thought. And I I did not realize we've known each other for many years, and I did not realize you even played guitar, which is you know, bad on me. But which one do you think is is more you know the one that you easily connect to? What you know, the one that you communicate with the best?

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Well, it's it's it it it's uh yeah, I I mean I'm definitely more advanced as a pianist. Uh you know, it's uh I play blues and folk guitar. Nice. And uh and a little bit of Brazilian jazz, uh, but not you know anything great. Where I can play Chopin and I can play uh you know Charlie Parker tunes two-handed and stuff on the piano. So I mean, I you know, I I took piano lessons in my adult life from a very strict uh uh Serbian classical train, classically trained jazz pianist who was studying to uh compete in the Van Kleibern when he got drafted during the Vietnam War. And uh so when he got drafted, he uh instead of picking up a gun, he picked up the bass and convinced them he should be in the uh uh the the Air Force jazz band or whatever. I you know, so uh um army jazz. I don't I I can't remember, but uh so he really beat the crap out of me and uh you know made me play things like uh you know ornithology with two hand uh or uh Oprivav. I mean, I I mean what's the one I'm thinking of uh uh that that was like amazingly uh uh crazy two-handed uh head, but uh I'm I'm blanking on it right now. But uh but but anyway, the the so you know he just really grilled me, uh making my left hand do stuff I couldn't believe it could do, and yeah, you know, teaching me all all the upper, you know, just so you know, I gravitate more towards piano uh just because I I think it's it's easier for me to I you know, I I mean I probably know 500 songs on the guitar, but it's just the chords. Whereas piano, you know, you play in both hands, you're playing the chords, you're playing the melody, you're improv improvising. So so you know, I guess that's a long way of saying piano.

Joey Stuckey 25:04

Yeah, yeah. And and so, you know, we we've uh we we left you uh in Phoenix um uh being fired for being a fan of Wayne Shorter. And what happened next? Because you have been in the music business in some form or fashion, you know, your whole life, basically, right? So what was the next thing that that that happened for you in that uh space?

SPEAKER_00 25:28

So then I moved from Portland to Seattle from my hometown, basically, and uh uh waited tables for a while. Uh and one day there was an ad in the paper said, Do you love music? Do you do you love people? You know, uh go see Pat Stone at Sherman Clay. And so in 1978, I went to work for the Sherman Clay Company, which is the largest Steinway dealer uh in America at the time, and uh spent 16 years. Uh, you know, I used to say by day I sold Steinways, by night I recorded them.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

And had a series of seven and nine-foot conch grand steinways in my home that I uh, you know, if you came into my piano store and I liked the way you played, I'd tell you about my semi-private studio. Um, and in the mid-90s, uh I had amassed a really remarkable collection of vintage mics. And interestingly, the New York Times came out with an article about the collectibility, it was on the front page of the New York Times, the collectibility of vintage microphones. And and according, you know, to the New York Times, my mic collection went up $10,000 in value in one day. Nice. That was a good news. The bad news was a guy I was negotiating with to buy an Elam 251 for $8,000. I called him up to say, okay, I'll take your prices. No. I read the same article in the New York Times you did. I want $13,000 now. So his single microphone went up $5,000 in a day. But here's the thing: I should have been happy, but I was kind of annoyed.

Joey Stuckey 27:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

I had a young son at the time. I thought, well, my son gets to be 20 and what if he wants to go into the recording business? How could he ever afford a good microphone? I mean, you know, it's great that my old mics are worth bazillions of dollars, but it's just reckon it for everybody else. So, you know, I I you know, I'm a contrarian, so I saw it as a negative, not a positive. And so the story goes, I got mad at Noum and I decided to build homebrew. I love it. And so, you know, I in 1998 I decided I would build some microphones for friends of mine, just a few friends of mine, you know, to try to find a way to make a microphone sound like a U67 without costing thousands and thousands of dollars.

Joey Stuckey 28:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

And uh 80K was born, and and Rob Schrock, I believe, a year later wrote a review uh of of the first 80k microphone, and his review he says, I'm reminded of the sound of a U67.

Joey Stuckey 28:41

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

And I'm going, serial number 144 to be exact. Because that was my I had a really, really, really old U67 that I used.

Joey Stuckey 28:53

But that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

But uh, you know, and and you know, every time I turned around, somebody was copying 80K. And I'm not gonna name names, but endlessly uh I come out with a microphone, somebody'd copy it. So then I'd come out with a new version and somebody copied that. And finally, I believe around 2006, 2005, we'd had great success with Ray Charles and the Manhattan Transfer using our doing albums uh with Grammy winning albums with our mics. And and I I just felt like, you know, for Ray, I could do better. I I he deserves I I I know he he he famously put his five thousand dollar Neumanns in the in the back in the mic locker, recorded all of Genius Love's Company on a pair of thousand dollar 80Ks and and Nora um um Gladys Knight and and uh um several other singers on the album used our original tube mics, but I thought this is still not good enough. And so we spent almost five years, three years developing a new capsule technology. And and this is the interesting part where the capsule sounded already like a vintage mic. Now, what most people don't know is if you play it, you use a U67 or U47 is very dark and chocolatey and rich and full-bodied, you hear a lot of chest tones, it's not a lot of air. Very rich. Well, the capsule itself is very bright. And then the electronics detune it. They actually the EQ circuitry, cathode follower, as my good friend uh David Royer taught me about, totally takes the high end and rolls it off. And being a theoret a straight wire theorist, uh the theory is the more things I take out of the signal chain, the cleaner my signal path, the cleaner my results. So I came up with the idea and went to my design team and said, what if we made the capsule sound this way without EQ? You get rid of all the anomalies of phase shifting and all the other artifacts and noise from the EQ filters. What if a U47 tone is already imbued in the capsule? And so our next generation of mics, uh starting with the 3 Zigma and the TFET and the Z mods, all have capsules where you don't need, you need just a minimal amount of EQ uh circuitry to make it sound not exactly like, but in the same flavor, in the same sort of tone profile as a vintage ELAM 251, as a vintage M269, or or whatever. So the the new theory uh and and the result, I should say, is that you get all the tone without all the noise. You you you get a U47 flavor, but you don't get 3540 dB self-noise. So by getting rid of all that extra unwanted circuitry, it's cleaner, it's quieter, you still retain the flavor, the tone profile. It's not a clone, but it's it's it's sort of derivative. We like to say we use the vintage mic as the launch pad, not the destination.

Joey Stuckey 32:43

I love that. That's great. Well, I this is so fascinating. I am I'm gonna tell you this a secret that's not a secret. Uh I may have a problem. I may need an intervention because I really do lust after microphones. I I want to die with one more microphone than Sylvia Massey. So that's the uh that's my goal. Uh it's it's not gonna happen. But I I I say that jokingly, but I I will just tell you, I mean, uh the 80k mics are absolutely brilliant. And I I have enjoyed mine uh profoundly. And I will tell you, um, and I am not ashamed to make this public record. Uh the Munich 7 microphone is probably my favorite microphone ever. And uh I mean, you know, uh, I just slap it on stuff and it sounds good. I mean, I don't have to do anything. And it's I love it because it, you know, I I know what it sounds like, uh, and I know its character, and I know where to put it to get the sound I want. And I'm so excited every time I use it, uh, I say, oh, that's exactly what I wanted it to sound like. That's that that was the whole goal, mission accomplished. So I literally, I have two of them. I want two more, actually, but I have two at the moment. And uh I I literally leave that microphone in the corner of my tracking room and just never take it down because I know I'm gonna put it on something. And uh I love it. And you know, they are not expensive microphones either. That's the other thing. I mean, you know, they are now I've got I've got the uh the the Z mods as well. I've got you know I've got the 251 and uh uh um uh and this and the 67, and I love those. They're great. Don't get me wrong, I love them. And in fact, I worked with I can't think of your gentleman's name that that worked with the power supplies. Um, but I remember um you know being being part of uh you know, listening to those power supplies, and and as a blind guy that you know I can't see or smell, so I'm down two senses. Uh so I I but I can hear. Uh and you know, I was like, hey, um, you know, like can we do something with this? Can we do something with that? And and man, you know, like six months later, there was a new power supply that's like even better than what I had before. And uh it was just what a privilege to be able to talk to somebody and and and just you know the I think the thing that I love about ADK the most is there's a passion for quality, there's a passion for service. And uh and boy, you just you get taken care of. Uh and I love that about about them. And I I want to ask, I mean, how did you this this is the question I didn't want to ask you for a while, just you know, have never got around to it. Uh, but yeah, how did you come up with the idea of creating these microphones? I mean, how much electronic knowledge did you need? How did you how did you decide to it was a collaborative effort, or did you design them from the ground up, or how did that work? Because to me, making a microphone sounds like a hard job.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Well, you know, and then again, this I this I say this tongue in cheek, but I have an Ivy League education and and in my and then my design team, I always try to be the dumbest guy in the room. Yeah. So I like it. Great amounts of help. Uh I I you know, uh JP Girard uh uh from Belgium is was instrumental in uh the development of ADK. And if if you ever want a ribbon mic, uh he he owns a company called No Hype in Belgium, and he makes a very, very affordable, great-sounding ribbon mic with a Swedish Lundal transformer in it. That's you know, I people go, why don't you make a ribbon? And I go, to quote the one note samba, sing the note you know. I've used condenser mics my whole life. Yeah. I understand how that from an ear standpoint, how they're supposed to behave. Uh, I leave ribbons to my great friend David Royer.

Joey Stuckey 37:08

Uh yeah, David's a genius.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

I mean, you know, he's he's he's my dear friend and all those guys from Mojave and shout out to Royer Labs and all the Dusty and all the crew. You know, those guys are great. It's funny, I think Telefunken and Royer uh and Mojave, they're all friends of mine. We're not we're not rivals. We're we're absolutely colleagues, and we have deep profound respect. I remember Tony uh uh the late great Tony Fishman when he founded uh this almost the same year when he founded uh Telefunken. I I I swear I didn't make this up. He used to tell people if you can't afford a telefunkin, buy an 80K. Now, I I I didn't ask him to say that. I didn't pay him to say that. He just he he and I bonded over a love of great sounding microphones, just the same way David Royer and I uh bonded over the pursuit uh you know of creating tools that have musicality. Oh yeah. So so you know, that's I I you know I I really feel a kindred spirit with people who are relentlessly pursuing the same goals. And you know, I have to say you're my hero. I I just I'm always flabbergasted by you're off in LA playing in clubs. I, you know, I I I I just you know I follow your career with just absolutely uh, you know, like I'm a I'm a fan, you know.

Joey Stuckey 38:56

Oh, I appreciate you're very kind. I appreciate that very much. I you know, people ask me, uh, how do you stay in the music business? It's hard. And uh my honest answer, well, my my glib answer is I'm too dumb to quit. Uh but but the honest answer is, and I think you would, I think you feel the same way, uh, is uh I am not fully me without music. It it is a natural extension of my being. And and I have to serve that because if I don't, I don't feel right. And uh and so that is the that's the real reason. Um, you know, and it's it's it's it is a difficult business. Uh there are some heartbreaks, and uh there are some uh unscrupulous uh individuals that you encounter, and but but then you also which you so eloquently you know put with David Royer and everybody, like you also find your community and and you you find those people who who feel the same way you feel, and and you know, and you can be colleagues and you can be friends. And and you know, I I had a you know a guy here in town uh who was a famous engineer back in the 70s and you know did a lot of records with the the Southern Rock uh scene that were big, big, big records. And uh he uh he and I had a lot of respect for each other. I mean, theoretically we were competitors in the studio space here in town, but we really weren't. And um, you know, he would call me and say, hey man, my my uh he's he's about 25, 30 years older than me, but uh he would call me and say, hey, my ADAT's uh broken. Like, can I borrow one of yours? Yeah, sure. You know, come I'll unscrew up from the rack, you come pick it up, yeah, it's fine with me. And uh, you know, that's fine. And then and then he would say things like, uh, when it got into the computer age, he did not want to do that. He wanted to stay with tape. Uh, I went ahead and moved into recording digitally because that is what the clientele wanted. Uh, I didn't want to do that, honestly. Um, and the reason I didn't want to do it was because computers uh still at that time in the in the early 2000s were still very hit or miss with accessibility for the blind practitioner. Um, so I didn't really want to do that because it was a pain in the butt. And it cost a lot to outfit your system with the accessible tools, and even then they weren't really super reliable. But at any rate, that was what had to be done. So uh he would say to people, I don't do computers, go talk to Stucky. I don't want to, I don't want to do that. He'll he'll take care of you. And then and then and then Paul uh uh sort of quasi-retired and started doing just kind of what he wanted to do, and bands that he wanted to work with, which typically were older bands that he had worked with in the past. And uh he he actually came to me and said, I've I've got a couple of long-term clients that I don't want to abandon, but I just, you know, I'm I don't want to do it anymore. I'm I'm I'm stepping back some. And I want, you know, I I trust you to do a good job and to be honorable, and I want you to take these if you will. And I said, Yeah, sure, I'll yeah, I'll do that. And uh, you know, it was an honor to privilege because uh here's a guy who you know was very gifted and talented and said, you know, I trust you to like handle these people I've handled for 30 years. Um, you know, and that was great. So we we had that wonderful camaraderie, and and and I thought that was so wonderful to to find that. And and you know, it's it's uh it can be done. Um but I I'm getting back to you know the microphones and uh all that, I mean, you know, how did you finally combat? And I don't I don't want to be negative in any way, so we can we can skip around if this is if this is uh not a not a rabbit hole you want to go down, but how did you finally combat you know these these guys you were talking about uh copying your stuff? Like what what what can you do to protect yourself against that? How does that work?

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Well, yeah, yeah, without getting into any specifics uh you know anything no matter what technology we would develop, uh it it would get gray marketed. So uh you know, at some point, you know, you throw up your hands and say, well, you you you know, you can you can take my technology, uh but if you don't know the total how to totally uh integrate it into your designs, uh you you can take a piece of my technology and think you've got the totality of it. So I kind of liken it to uh you know, if if you take a cut of Filet mignon or something, a big great cut of uh beef, uh a ribeye or something. And and and you you you take it to a Michelin star chef and you say, Cook me a meal, and you take that exact same cut of meat and you take it down to McDonald's and say, stick this on the front, stick this on the fryer. It was exactly the same component, but the outcome is different. And so what we've managed to, you know, some of our designs we thought were proprietary and were stolen, but you you can you you can't steal the totality of it. Uh, you know, we we uh uh I guess one of the things, especially with the Z mod, for example, is nobody uh can steal the technology because we build it in-house.

Joey Stuckey 44:57

I gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

So, you know I I you know that it's an ongoing saga, and uh you know you and I can privately talk about some things we're we're we're doing to future proof the next generation of products that we're uh gonna unveil. Uh but uh you know, I I think at the end of the day, uh you know, the you know, it's the same thing like I could sell you a uh a spruce, uh uh a bunch of spruce wood and some maple and some cast iron and some strings, you still wouldn't know how to make a Steinway.

Joey Stuckey 45:40

That is true. That is exactly right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

And so it just the components do not uh uh you know bespeak the the the the the the resulting product. So people trust us with our sound. I mean at the end of the day, uh you know whether it was Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder or whoever, they they you know the golden ears, the bad ears of our industry, uh, you know, they gravitate towards us. And I always feel like if I could uh Chuck Gainley's a perfect example. I sent him microphones every year for eight years. You know, Larry, I really like the sound of it. It's too noisy. I I it's it's as good, but it's not and one day I I finally created the Z mods and I sent him a Z251, and uh he did a shootout at uh I don't know if you'll be mad at me for saying this, but uh uh he did a shootout at Blackbird Studio uh with Lionel Ritchie. Oh neat. And they took uh tons of vintage ELAM 251s uh uh and A-B'dum. And uh, you know, he ended up buying uh he ended up acquiring one of every Z mod we built and two of the 251s because he likes them on piano. Oh yeah. So Chuck became our beta tester. I mean, he we we run new designs by him. So when I talked about being the dumbest guy in the room uh in the design team, I'm also the deafest guy in the room in my in my beta testers. You know, and I like to think I have good hearing. Uh yeah. But but at my age, you you don't hear what you used to. And so that's uh yes by by having you know Ray Charles Engineer and Chuck Ainley and Ronnie Brookshire, another Golden Ear, and these guys actually we sent them the new capsules with different transformers. We spent two years on a transformer quest.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

And when you talk about your Z251 and your Z67, well, the reason the Jensen transformers in that 251 is because of Chuck Ainley. And the reason the Lundahl transformer is in that 67 is Ronnie Brookshire, who tried a Souter, tried a Jensen, tried a Lundahl. Uh and the Lundahl was the magic sauce with the 67 capsule. But the Jensen was with the 251 and the Souter on the 12. And so, you know, we did the, you know, we're we're just maniacs about tone.

Joey Stuckey 48:36

I love it. Well, I'm, I mean, look, I'm I'm right there with you. I'm I am obsessed. I mean, you know, I I wake up in the morning, uh, I listen to music, I go to work and record music, I come home and listen to more music. Uh, and I'm always thinking about records and making records and writing songs and you know, all this stuff. And and and you know, how much so you, I mean, you you're you know, you're the microphone guru, and you know, you've you've made these these tools that are are profoundly uh like beautiful and you know and and at the same time, you know, very competitive in price, which is amazing. Um, and and so um, you know, I think that's such a a hard balance to to to not sacrifice any quality and yet make them affordable so that you know everyone in the music space can get one. I mean, that's that is a that's a heck of a heck of a job. I mean, that's that's a that's that is a hard process. So you have to be obsessed with it to be able to make that kind of impact. And I know um, yeah, I know Stevie Wonder uh loves some some of the mics. Uh I know that um Manhattan Transfer, uh, you know, Jazz at Lincoln Center, all have been big fans of your mic. And I actually want to uh say to you that we, you know, I got a chance to meet Manhattan Transfer on their final tour. Uh and uh had wanted to, they were my first entree into jazz as a teenager. Uh it was it was Manhattan Transfer and then uh Spyrogyra. Those those were my first two, those are my first two like experiences with jazz, and and then and then I just started getting into it more. And so, well, what happens if I go over here? What happens well who who else who were they listening to? You know, who who were their influences? And you and then then you know you go to you get into Miles and you get in the Coltrane, you get in the NC Gillespie, and uh, you know, Charlie Parker and all these guys. And so, you know, uh jazz is a big part of my life and a big part of my passion. And uh I I call what I do uh progressive Americana, which is a totally made up uh genre, but aren't they all? Uh but uh you know, but it it's it it's it basically Americana is broad enough to encompass blues and you know that and sort of southern stuff. And then the progressive side means that I'm gonna play some really weird chords and some really weird scales, and you're gonna have to just uh deal with it. So so uh you know, so that's what I do. I I play things that interest me. But um, I was just gonna say, like, you know, do you do you still you you've you've sort of you're still part of ADK, but you've you've uh you've stepped back a little bit from that. Um and and uh you know um a friend of ours, Miles, is is kind of the I guess the the day-to-day fellow now. And uh do you do you record much? Do you play much? Do you write much? Like what what are the things you're doing now uh as you as you are you know hanging out in Italy?

SPEAKER_00 51:43

Well, so let me just scroll back a second here and say that uh the Manhattan Transfer uh uh loved you when they met you. And I don't know if you, you know, I mean, I I I think I I think if I remember this right, I was able to get you backstage. Yeah, yeah, that's right. So uh and they just loved you and uh I think you brought them candy. I did.

Joey Stuckey 52:10

I brought them Stuckies candy, and I brought them a kazoo.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

You were uh and how much fun it was to meet you. So it's oddly you mentioned Spyrogyro. They were one of the first ADK endorsers, and you know, every time I'd get in, they'd send me an album and they'd they'd credit ADK on the album. It was like, Oh my gosh, I didn't know that.

Joey Stuckey 52:34

Well, you know, I can't read the liner notes, which is real drag.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Well, there you go.

Joey Stuckey 52:38

That that is I didn't know that, but man, they sound great. And uh I mean they're just they're one of my favorite bands of all time. And they they sound they still sound great. I mean, they they you know, they're just great. I I love it. And you know, uh Jay used to have one of my favorite studios that I never got to visit, but I always wanted to record uh at Bear Tracks, and uh uh had he had one of my favorite studios back in the back in the 90s. And I was uh when I was in my 20s, I was like, oh, I'm gonna record there one day. And of course I never made it. But uh, you know, love those guys.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

So the so the answer to your question is I play uh but my recording studios in mothballs right now. My my son uh works remotely with clients, he's a recording engineer as well, and uh uh a music producer, and so he's got clients in LA and in uh Seattle and Portland and stuff that he works remotely with. So he's got some of the equipment set up in his space. But temporarily, I you know, I sold my Steinway Grand, and I really don't I have not set up a studio. So the answer is I still play uh guitar and piano, uh sing a bit, uh kind of on the lookout for a new band, uh, but I really haven't recalibrated a studio setup yet. And uh, you know, it's it's in it's in the planning stages, but it's just not uh we got some room, you know, we want to do some room treatment and stuff. And uh I live in a 500-year-old home in Italy, and it's uh you know, we've we've got a space dedicated to music in it, but it's it's just not quite set up yet. And uh, you know, I'm I got my eyes on a piano, but you know, that's my lifelong passion has been recording acoustic pianos. Yes. I I got a chance to spend time with uh uh after uh Horowitz died, his piano went on tour. And uh both in Seattle and Portland, I got a chance to record jazz and classical artists on Horowitz's concert grand. Wow. Uh and and uh one point I had Van Kleiburn's and Horowitz's piano side by side in my piano showroom. And whoa. I was at work 7 a.m. every morning, two hours before they opened. I went back and forth between the two pianos. That's amazing. Uh Van Kleburn's was silky, smooth, and and and you know, just velvety. And I mean, it was just like couldn't have been more opposite. Same exact model, Stanley nine foot concert D's, but voice totally different. And so, you know, when people say, Oh, I want to record piano, what microphone do you use? I go, I gotta know more. You know, don't even tell me what brand it is. I still have to know more because uh especially a Steinway, they are so malleable. Uh, you know, it's just not, you know, in my view of the world with guitars and pianos, which I spent most of my life recording, one size does not fit all. Oh, I totally agree. One microphone on my Ramirez, another one on my Martin Dreadnought, uh, you know, a different one on my Gibson L5. I mean, I just I I I I really have this sort of belief in the crayon box approach.

Joey Stuckey 56:29

Me too. Well, but do you like to record how many mics do you like to have on your piano? Does it does that vary as well?

SPEAKER_00 56:36

You know, generally it's either two or four. Uh you know, generally you only have two ears, so uh I mean you only have two ears.

Joey Stuckey 56:47

I I've got five.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

I know, yeah, you know, seven, I know. Um but but you know, my favorite approach is uh a pair up close for the direct, right? Uh a pair of uh uh uh diffuse field omnis in the rafters uh to get the reflected uh uh, you know, and then you don't really need EQ. I mean you don't really need uh reverb because you got the natural reverb of the room uh feeding through your omnis.

Joey Stuckey 57:18

Yeah, yeah. I think that's beautiful. And I mean I do something, you know, I you know, it kind of depends on the player, and I try to listen to them and see like, you know, what character are they bringing out in the piano that I have? Um, you know, what what are they doing? You know, what how how is their touch affecting the tone? Um, what is it that's gonna transmit that to the to the to the you know recording? So I try to figure that out. Um and you know, um, but I I always do like at least one room, Mike, because um it it really can add a lot of flavor and you know uh it's better than any algorithm or or you know uh synthetic reverb or anything like that. I mean, just you know, for for me anyway. Uh so I I love that. Did do you have a favorite piano player? Do you have a a piano player that that you think you just love like the sound they get, the the the the you know everything about them? Is there someone that really uh inspires you? I mean, obviously Chick Korea had to be a big a big inspiration at that point.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

Now that he's passed, I guess I could say Herbie Hancock.

unknown 58:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

Now that he can't come get you. Now that he can't be mad at me. Uh yeah. But her Herbie, you know, so it's interesting. You uh Lang Lang was in Bremen, Germany recently, and they did a decatree of your favorite Munich Sevens with a pair of uh 80k uh small diameter diffuse field omnis. So they did uh a five-mic uh setup on a Hamburg Model D. I've been I I got pictures of by waiting for sound files. Uh that would be my alternative to do uh uh uh like Decature. That's cool. I should have thought of that. The spaced Omnis. Uh that's cool. Um, but you know, uh you have a Baldwin, and I'm thinking uh, you know, anything from our small diameters to Munich's uh would certainly translate well. Um Baldwins don't have a lot of brightness to them often, so uh a little bit brighter mic, like uh we reference an M269 uh in our Hamburg 67. Uh a pair of those on your Baldwin might come to mind as as uh alternative. Uh but uh, you know, Yamaha's, of course, tend to be super bright. Chick uh liked that sound. Uh I think he also got a uh a fabulous endorsement deal with Yamaha where they would not only, you know, take care of his piano needs when he traveled around the world, but he also, every time they had a new keyboard, they'd send send him one. So he had a sweetheart deal with Yamaha. But uh Herbie uh, bless his heart, is a Fazzioli artist. And uh you've got a number of his recordings that were done on Steinways in his earlier days, but uh his Fazzioli sounds remarkable. I mean, it's just uh that's my new favorite piano. Um that's cool. If I win the lot are you gonna get one? I uh you know that's my dream. I I I uh have to sell a lot of microphones. You mentioned me you mentioned me stepping back. Uh you know, I'm not uh I mean Miles is the new president and CEO of of ADK. Right. My longtime uh you know microphone builder and technician is still actively involved. I'm involved uh new design, uh I'm involved with the artists, I'm certainly involved in our messaging, you know, the uh uh but Miles really runs the company now, and I'm I'm you know, I mean, my title is chairman emeritus, which means I'm semi-retired, uh, but I'm active, uh, you know, uh because it's my child, you know, it is my Absolutely. It's like when you're just you know, I I I get up every morning and eat, sleep, and breathe ADK because, you know, it just it's it's something that, you know, I I like to say when I sold Steinways, uh I had a lot of doctors and lawyers as clients and you know, with my very highly educated, so I got along well with them, but they never invited me to dinner. I'm not, you know, they're there when I started ADK, all my kindred spirits came out of the woodwork. The musicians and engineers that live uh, you know, the same life I live, that dream dreams I dream. So, you know, that that's when I really found my community.

Joey Stuckey 1:02:30

I love that. I think that's so wonderful. And it's a real privilege to find that community. And uh, I I think that that means so much. Um it's such an enriching process. And then to find people not only that you can talk shop with or that you you feel uh uh you know spiritually, for lack of a better word, aligned with, but then to have those resources as as allies and friends. And uh it's it's amazing. And and you know, it's it's uh it takes time, it really does take time to find that place uh where you belong sometimes. And um it's it's a very interesting process. I I have to say you mentioned uh Dusty Wakeman earlier, and who's a dear friend of mine, and I basically uh the the problem, Larry, and and you may be aware of this already, if you offer me something, I don't forget. And uh even if you do it casually, uh I will pop back up to remind you. And um, and so and and Dusty told me that um that he was used to LA people that never followed up. And uh so he always said to me, Hey, I you know, I'd love to play um your music with you sometime, blah, blah. Yeah, uh-uh. Well, you shouldn't have you shouldn't have said that because I'm gonna come call him one day. And and I did. And uh so this past year I uh I called him and said, So, how much do you really love me? And I said, Because if you have not had the experience of being a blind man trying to get a guitar through LAX, you do not know what hell is. And I I want to borrow a guitar from you. I know you're a bass player, but I'm sure you have a guitar. Can I borrow a guitar for you so I can play my little showcase in LA during Grammy Week and not have to bring my guitar? And he said, Yeah, that's fine. I'll just use my my 67 telly. Okay, great. Now, uh you mention playing with me sometimes, so I feel like this is the time. So, how about playing bass with me? Yeah, yeah, that's good. I'll do that. Okay, great. So the thing is now we have a bass player and a guitar player, you we should probably have a drummer. Uh, why don't you arrange that too? And so when when you offer stuff, you know, I come calling. So anyway, uh my point though is that you have been so kind to me and so uh so gracious with your time and with your with your love and your friendship. And that's really a valuable thing. And and uh, you know, when you when you said to me, uh, I can't remember how many years ago it was now, like, hey, you should really have some of these microphones, uh, you know, I was like, um, you know, yeah, well, let's do that. Like what, you know, and and um I was so excited uh to to get them and and and to experience them and to use them and and then to get to know you because you have such an interesting uh you know story, you have such an interesting journey. You're you're you're such an intelligent fellow and a kind person, which is the most important part really. Uh, but I I love that you're doing all these things. I love that you're still in it. I love the philosophy you know behind ADK. I think that's fantastic. I I am like you. I mean, I do not ever plan to fully retire. I I mean my goal is to drop dead in the studio, basically. I mean, I mean, I don't want to die. I've been fighting to stay alive my whole life. I'm a brainstorming survivor, so I'm not saying I want to die, but what I'm saying is that eventually it's gonna something's gonna get me. And when it does, I would like to be in the middle. Of a session or on stage or something. I do not want to be sitting at home. And, you know, so I I love that you're still very engaged in all this stuff and thinking of new designs. And I guess I'd like to, I'd like to um I'd like to hit you with two final questions of our time together here. One, and this look, the the thing about this podcast is it's it's by music nerds for music nerds. So we go down rabbit holes that are uber technical and you know that might sort of bore the normal podcast listener, but our our audience loves it. So we you know, we we we do it. Also, it's my show, so I'm gonna do whatever I want to do. And if people tune out, they tune out. Uh so but but I'm I'm sort of being tongue-in-cheek, but I just want to know how do you get inspired to design a microphone? I mean, that sounds like such an involved process. Like, do you start thinking about sounds that you're not able to get easily? Do you start drawing diagrams? I mean, do you do you what's what's that like to have a microphone be your brainchild?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:11

Well, again, I do it in the reverse. I I I have a I I tell people I'm the euphonic designer of ADK. I am not the uh schematic designer. I'm not, I am not, you know, I I hire people who think in the sub-molecular uh because that's you know, I built my first ham radio when I was 11 years old. It's not that I'm an ignorant, uh I'm not I'm not you know, I'm not uneducated into circuitry, but I I like, you know, I I I would rather have somebody with a much more highly developed uh sense of design uh and electronics. And you know, we paired, we teamed up with David Bach to do a redesign, uh a sort of a facelift of our already super popular Z mods. We just, you know, like again, it's sort of it's like I never want to rest on my laurels. I always want to push the envelope. It's it's it's it's never good enough. It's always room for improvement. Uh but you know, the but but again, I it sort of goes back to my microphone collection. I I'm still trying to take my favorite classic mics and improve on them. To say, well, I like that, you know, for for example, your favorite Munich, it's not one microphone, it's got the base characteristics of a U47, but it's got the treble characteristics of a U67. So it's a so you know it it it's it's not it's a you know, it's a Frankenstein. I mean yeah, yeah, I love it. Yeah, you know, it's a Frankenmike. So, you know, I I start with a sonic, just to it goes, you know, again, it kind of goes back to my piano knowledge, you know, the the the Yamahas are super bright and and and Steinways are somewhat bright, and and Faziolis are more velvety and smooth, and and and blutners are opera pianos, and Bechsteins are you know very, very bright, the strong fundamental. I mean, I I have this sensibility about tone. So I'm the guy that tells my design team what I want it to sound like. And we may go back and forth like we did for two years with with, okay, now that we've got the capsule, let's fine-tune the the the transformers to go with it. It's it's all a matter of series of refinements. You know, and you know this from playing music. You can have a piece of music and you say, Well, I know all the notes now. Um, but how do you express them? How do you the shadings that you put into in into the notes? Absolutely. You know, so there are nuances that you know I I try to imbue in the microphone designs, but I rely on other people, uh, you know, the the the JP Gerards and the David Box to execute uh my architectural vision.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:53

That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:55

You know, the but I you know I get accused of being uh just another clone microphone company if people only knew how much beyond, you know, and that's our motto, beyond clone or classics. We we're we're we're taking the the favorite microphones of all time. If you go to Nashville and ask, you know, uh uh John McBride, you know, show me your mic locker, and he'll pull out the rare and beautiful mics. He has, well, let's take the ones you love the best and let's start from there and see what we can come up with that, you know, has a similar character, but you know, we've we've we've you know the modern recordists, let's take U-47s, for example. Uh, they dropped like a rocket 10,000 Hertz. That was perfect in 1949.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:51

Uh loudspeakers didn't hear over 5,000 Hertz, so you didn't need your microphone to hear over 10,000 Hertz. Well, you know, our 47 here is far beyond the range of uh classic U47. So, you know, we we just we we're we're the unclone.

Joey Stuckey 1:12:12

I like it. I just wonder, like, you know, I I had uh a blue theater here in town uh make me some custom guitars. And um, you know, some of them I I sort of tell him what I want. And I say, I need this, I need this, I need this, and he's like, oh God, really, you know, and uh and you know, so I I I have those uh you know, those ideas. And then of course I can't execute them, so I tell him what I want. Um and he does. And then sometimes I say, um, you know, surprise me. Give me, oh, let me see something you've made just because you you could, and let me see if I want it. And uh, you know, again, I have a problem, so I I buy a lot of guitars. But anyway, um, the uh the thing that I'm saying is, do you when I was designing one of my guitars, you know, one of the things I did was I said, uh, okay, so here are the records that are getting the sounds I want. Now let's figure out what kind of wood and what kind of pickups are gonna do that. You know, and and and so that's kind of my process. So do you, uh, and I'm I'm, you know, I have I got good ears, I got a good brain, but I have no skill with a soldering iron or any of that kind of stuff. Can't read diagrams, you know. So I mean, do you ever do that? Do you come up with like a sonic profile by saying, okay, I I want the quality of this mic with this other characteristic from this mic, and here's a recording you can reference, like this is kind of the sound I want. I mean, do you go that far or how does that work?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:46

Well, I think it's more uh it's a little more scientific than that. So, for example, all the great classic mics have twin bell curves. If you look at the response curve, it's it's like a camel with two humps. Uh so uh, you know, it's how elevated is the the 5 to 6k hertz, which is the speech intelligibility range, right? And how elevated is the 14 to 16,000 Hertz, which is the airband, and where is it scooped and how deeply is it scooped? So uh for example, a C-12 has a lot of right, it's really heavy in the 6K, 56K range, and then it's got a gentle airband boost. The ELAM 251 is just the opposite, it's got a nice uh 6k boost, but not a giant one. And then the airband is ginormous. Yeah, that's what everybody loves, is that so so and then a U-47's got a bell curve in the speech intelligibility range and then drops like a rocket 10,000 Hertz, and a U67 goes out to 15,000 Hertz and drops and rolls off like you know, falls off a cliff. And so, and and then the German broadcast version of a U67, which is what we reference in our 67s, has a little more of the it was designed for broadcast, so it's got a bigger boost in the 5 to 6k range for speech intelligibility. And and and so what it gets down to is ancient mics, however favored they are, lack some of the characteristics that a modern studio engineer wants. And so rather than having to you know push some some EQ curve up, which as we all know, if you boost EQ, you burst boost thermal noise. Right. The way I was trained is the only EQ worth having is attenuation, reduction. Um if you have to boost, you're boosting all kinds of things you don't want. Right. But if you can design the microphone to have the boosts and the dips uh where you want them, then then it's just a matter of choosing the right microphone. So uh I had a jazz musician, jazz singer, a beautiful artist in New York recently, uh a female jazz singer, and we we just we sent her everything, uh 67, a 251, a 47. Nothing worked for her. We finally sent her a Z12, and she said, Oh, that's the magic. And so, you know, it's about finding your soulmate.

Joey Stuckey 1:16:44

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I I love that. That is that's beautiful. Let me let me close with the I'm gonna warn you. Um, this is this is a question I ask everybody. Uh I honestly take a little bit of pleasure in uh asking this question and seeing if if the person on the other end of the uh conversation has an aneurysm. Uh yeah. What do you think about artificial intelligence in the music business?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:15

So uh I it's a two-edged sword. Yeah. But but mostly it's uh yeah, I'm mostly negative. Uh, you know, my son does mixing and mastering. Uh so from the standpoint of mixing, my daughter's a photo editor. Tony. Both of their jobs are in jeopardy from AI.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:42

Um from the composition of music, AI bands, I I mean, I I just I just think it's the death knell. I i it it's just, you know, it just smacks me as as I had a girlfriend in Columbia. Okay, her father was a professor. I uh this could be a long-winded uh uh parenthetical, but she she knew I wrote poetry, and one day just to goad me, uh she brought me a friend of hers who is a computer programmer, and he said, you know, he got his computer to write poetry. This is 1967.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:30

And I remember the line in poetry, it was all the sweet crazy commerce of it. And and she said, see, uh that's a double entendre. The computer understood the commerce doesn't just mean exchange of goods, but it's a it's it's it's a euphemism for sex. And I'm going, okay. Uh there's no Shakespeare in this. There's there's no there's there's you know, so to me, uh, you know, it's coming, it's inevitable. Uh the they better come up with a universal uh uh you know guarantee of income to everybody living on the planet. Not all just go to the five tech bros because we're all gonna be out of work. But you know, I I gotta believe the, you know, nope, it's gonna be a long time before a robot plays my Ramirez and knows how to pluck flesh versus fingernail to get uh and move up and down to know have the nuance of play a you know uh a Louis Bonfa tune. Uh, you know, I think you and I are safe for our lifetimes. Let's put it that way. Well, that's all that matters.

Joey Stuckey 1:19:47

You know, I mean, I I I have I have very strong opinions on this, uh, and I get a lot of hate for it, but uh, I am unapologetically a humanist. Uh, you know, I think that that life is about beings and uh computer just ain't one. And uh, you know, if it's not alive, uh, it it has nothing to tell you because it hasn't lived. Um, so you know, I I that's that's how I feel about it. I mean, I there are things it can do that are a boon to society. So for me as a blind person, if an AI can start to tell me what is in front of me, it can can describe things, can, can help me interface with the world around me, that's all to the good. Uh if it's trying to um, you know create quote unquote art, um, I'm less excited about that. And and I don't know if you remember this, Larry, but there was a time when Microsoft had a little a little eight-bit um helper in Microsoft Word called Clippy. And uh hated Clippy with a passion. And uh, you know, Clippy would come up and say stuff like, Do you want me to correct your paper? No, I don't. I wrote what I meant to write. I, you know, and today there are some plugins. I will not name the company, but there's some plugins that have a little artificial intelligence in them, and they go, Would you like me to suggest some uh where you start your levels? No, I would not. Uh, I I I'm happy with uh my 10,000 hours and uh that I put into this business, and I'll start my levels where I please. Um, so I I don't want that help. I don't need that help. I, you know, I'm not excited about it. And I guess the thing that makes me the most upset is is is the profound feeling that I get, and this is me preaching, and I apologize, but I feel like big tech is trying to sell me the lie that AI is integral to living in the 21st century, and that the pursuit of instant gratification is what matters, and that's what I should be uh obsessed with. And so the fact that you can say someone like Suno or whatever, their CEO can say something to the effect of uh, you know, learning an instrument is too hard, nobody wants to do that. Um well, then don't. But uh trying to tell me that, you know, somehow uh making a song with no uh effort, with no dream, with no spirit, with no passion is somehow something I want is uh really annoying. So I'm not happy. But uh yeah, I I you know you're right. I mean, it's here. Um my my big my big thing uh uh is uh I think we should have uh guardrails. I I think there should be some legislation. Uh I think that if you're trained in my music, I want to be paid for that. Um and I think that Isaac Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics is probably a good call. So so that's my feeling. I I figured you'd feel the same way. But uh yeah, I I I'm interested.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:55

Yeah, I'm a humanist with you. Uh, there's a friend of mine has a friend who wrote a dystopian novel about the evils of AI, and he had AI write it for him. Is that true? I well, uh anecdotally, I I haven't read it yet. I'm gonna that is hilarious. That is the that is the that's crazy. Hal is Hal coming for us.

Joey Stuckey 1:23:23

That's what Oh God. Well, he you know, he lucky your name's not Dave, because if it were you he wouldn't open the pot day doors, you know, so I don't know. But but it's yeah, I I just well the thing is, as you as you rightly say, I mean, uh it's gonna be a long time before uh a robot can can do anything uh like what you're talking about, because um it is in the hands, it is in it is in the the the the expression uh of being human. It's actually in in our limitations as well as our talents that we find meaning in in art. You know, the the limitations are almost as important really uh you know as as I mean I I I like the fact that uh you know some of my choices are made you know because of certain limitations and it it it uh makes you unique. You know, that's not everybody can can play the exact same way. God knows. I you know I'm no Oscar Peterson, so I mean I can't do the stuff that he can do, you know. So uh um of course I'm not a piano player at all, but but anyway, yeah, I I think that's really true. And uh I I hope that uh soon you will have your studio back up and running and and uh jamming some piano tunes and and uh you know playing.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:40

For now I'll have to make use of my Nord, but you know, I'm reminded of somebody trying to do a mini map of some of the pop records from the 60s and 70s, and they're lamenting the fact that the the the the uh rhythm speeded up and slowed down. Oh my god, how terrible is that!

Joey Stuckey 1:25:03

You know, that's that's really funny because I that's an interesting point, and we'll close on this. Uh, I um I have an interesting relationship with the click track. Uh I like a click for a very practical reason, and that is that as a blind person, it makes it easier to edit audio for me. If everything's lined up with the grid, I can get in there and and manipulate it. If it's not lined up with the grid, what happens is I can't see transient markers. So, so I have to drag, listen, drag, listen, drag. And it takes forever. So, so I like the click, but I I've learned to uh I've learned over time, and the guys that I play with, you know, have this same skill. I can lock directly to the click and be completely like on the grid, or I can play around the click and it, you know, uh, you know, and and and be expressive and still have the click, you know, there and and and you know, reference it, but I can play ahead or behind or whatever I need to do to let it breathe. And there are there are certain genres that you know work well with a click. There's certain genres that don't. And what I'm doing right now um uh is I'm I'm headed up to LA uh to the Les Paul studio, which is part of a United complex. Uh, I'm the first artist to record there. Um uh and uh I I convinced them that that's something that they should let me do. I told you, I come calling. You make you make even the vaguest suggestion of the idea that I like it. Here I'll come. And so I'm I'm gonna do it. You know, we got eight channels. Uh we're we're doing two, but it's and and you know, we're gonna do live in studio. So there's no click, there's no, we're just gonna play. And and and we and you know, that's that's exactly what I want. And so this will be the second time I've done that process. I went to Sun Studio in Memphis and uh and did the same thing. And we we we rented three hours, did 10 songs and and uh knocked it out, brought it back to my place to mix. I didn't mix it there. Um, but you know, I I so so I mean this live and studio idea is one that I really dig. And uh and so you know, we're just in there, bunch of bunch of people making music in the same room and and just you know, feeding off each other, and it and it breathes, and it's there's no, I mean, you know, there's no train wrecks or or or anything crazy like that, but yeah, it breathes a little bit, man. You know, maybe maybe the chorus is a little faster than the verse, and that's okay. You know, so I love it. Is there anything you want to share that we haven't talked about, especially regarding ADK? So is there anything you want to put out in the universe before I let you go?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:41

Well, no, I just, you know, again, I I just really have uh a strong, you know, affinity towards people like you who are, you know, like myself, you're an engineer and a musician. And you know, we're here to make your life easier. Uh we're here to add to the musicality of your tracks. And as you you said, you know, Kevin and Miles, I mean, they are so accountable and and quick to reply, and and you know, uh, you know, Miles dropped his tube mic and broke it once uh uh years ago, and I overnighted him a replacement because he had a session. And he said, you never forgot that. I wouldn't. That's amazing. We we just uh you know it's kind of like Johnny Appleseed. We just want people to have good flavors, you know, and variety and and and and you know, it's it's uh it's a labor of love, a passion that will go on. And you know, I I hope I I die on the phone to one of my favorite artists.

Joey Stuckey 1:28:56

I love it. I love it. I'm I'm with you, brother. I'm with you. And I I appreciate you and and all the wonderful guests that we've had on this podcast. So don't forget, friends, you can you can check out amazing people uh anytime you want by going to www.stuckonthsound.com. All of our episodes are there, and I guarantee you will leave every episode with some new idea because the people we talk to are just that cool.