Joey Stuckey 0:59

Welcome once again to Stuck on Sound. And I'm your host, Joey Stuckey, sexy as Elvis with Half the Fat. I've got such an exciting guest. And you know, I don't get a chance to talk to many other guitar players. So I'm always excited to talk to somebody that plays guitar. Ben Medina is with me. And uh among all the things he's done, you may know him best for his role in 10,000 Maniacs. Uh, but he is uh quite the player and an interesting fellow. And so we are excited to get a chance to chat. Ben, welcome to the show, and thanks for making time, my friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Ah, thank you for having me. I don't know about interesting, but we'll see.

Joey Stuckey 1:35

I understand exactly what you mean. The uh, you know, I I always like to start. Well, I've got some very um specific questions a little later about this sort of almost fairy tale thing that happened to you in regards to 10,000 Maniacs and and how you became your part of that. But before we go there, um I want to start at the beginning of your love of music and and what it was that brought you to that point, what what it was that let you know that, hey, this is what I'm this is what I'm gonna do in my life.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Well, I mean, I've loved music ever I mean, my very first memories ever was probably like when I was had to be one or two years old, or just from playing music on my little portable record player, you know. Um that started my love of music, but um before I realized that I actually wanted to be a musician, that wasn't till well, fantasized about being a musician anyway, is um not until you know I discovered Ten Thousand Maniacs in about 1987 or 88 during their first uh Saturday night live appearance. Um, you know, that was my Ed Sullivan moment, I always say.

Joey Stuckey 3:00

So that's um it's it's remarkable too because I mean, you know, the the you're exactly right. When when I sort of read your bio and uh was digesting some of that, I I was thinking this is the Ed Sullivan moment, you know, this is kind of the thing. Yeah and and I it's interesting because I didn't my my um my entree to to music as a vocation, you know, as something that like you know I wanted to spend the rest of my life doing was was uh a much different story. It it it was certainly a watershed moment. There was a you know paradigm shift in my thinking. Um that didn't happen for me until I was uh about 17, something like that. Okay. Um you know, and and so uh most of my early life, as uh podcast listeners will know, uh was spent not dying. So that was that was my main, that was my main objective uh at the point, you know, because of the brain tuber and all the crazy stuff that went with that. But but but music was always such a big source of inspiration, entertainment, and solace. You know, it was it was like the thing that I went to for comfort and you know, all these things. Before, I mean I know that 10,000 maniacs is is like is you know a big a big part of your that's your Ed Sullivan moment, but what were you listening to prior to that? Like what got you interested in in guitar? Was were you already interested in guitar music, or did you become interested in guitar music once you saw that Saturday Night Live uh episode?

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Well, you know, I I as a as a child I listened to a lot of um you know AM and FM radio that we know whatever my dad had uh on in the car, which was mostly back then when what he had on was you know golden oldies stations, you know, oldies from the 50s and 60s, so I'm very w well versed in that stuff, and then uh and then um easy listening stuff from the 1970s as well. I really was into and then um and then I got into what it was was it 1986-ish or so around there, not 1986, 85, I'm not sure. I can't remember the exact year, but then the monkeys made a comeback, and I was really into their music. I loved the monkeys when they oh they're uh that stuff is awesome. Yeah, oh gosh, it's very underrated. I mean Oh, it is man.

Joey Stuckey 5:25

That last train the Clarksville guitar part is so good. Oh yeah, yeah, it's so jangly. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Yeah, so anyway, I got really into them, and then yeah, and then shortly after that, then I saw them the maniacs on Saturday Night Live, but um but around eight years old, when I was eight, my dad taught me guitar. Oh uh, so he he taught me very you know basic chords, open chords. Um but I never really took it further than that until you know the a switch was flipped in my brain after seeing the maniacs that oh, you can do more than just these simple chords that I that I already knew, you know, that might be a good idea.

Joey Stuckey 6:12

Was her dad a musician as well?

SPEAKER_02 6:15

No, yeah um he played guitar. Now his father was my grandfather, he was a professional musician. He played everywhere in the um western Colorado region. He was a full-time musician, really. Um he was a bluegrass player. Oh wow, those guys could play. Yeah, um, but um, but he he died when my dad was like 12, so I never got to know him. But um but but his guitar, you know, his Cherish guitar was passed down to my dad, and my dad then learned, you know, a few basic chords and then passed that down to me, and then from there, you know, then the I learned more from I learned a lot more uh uh advanced techniques from actually watching the maniacs.

Joey Stuckey 7:09

So did you it's amazing. I mean, so did you decide to like go to music school or or how did you continue your education you know with the guitar and learning what what to play and what not to play?

SPEAKER_02 7:22

No, um I didn't start music education until um I was already well into playing in professional bands. So in 2018, I think, 2018, around there, I um studied under um a famous blues musician in Chicago area named Pistol Pete. I love the name. Oh, yeah, he's he's a legend around these parts. Um so I studied under him for a few years, and he taught me so much around about music theory and um and performance. Uh yeah, I learned a lot from him. I I I owe I owe a lot to Pistol Pete for sure, but I didn't pursue education, music education, until well after I was already, you know, eight years into playing professionally. So I love it.

Joey Stuckey 8:16

Well, you know, it's a really interesting discussion uh about music education and and what path you take. Because um certainly some of the greatest stars in the world have no training of any kind, they just have raw talent, you know, they just they just do it. Uh and and it's it's just sort of a you know a natural extension of of their spirit of who they are. Um and then you have people that you know um are very well trained, but they're they're locked to what's on the page, so they can't really improvise. And that's so there's there's that. So, you know, for me, my you know, I I actually know how to read music, but I just can't see to do it. So my teacher took a box of sand and drew in it as like, here's what the staff looks like. You just you need to know what it looks like. Um, you know, I know you can't see it, but I want you to understand. And then, you know, he trained my mind uh and my ear, you know, and and so you know, I'm a I'm a real, I am uh unabashedly and unashamedly a super theory nerd. Um I enjoy it. I really enjoyed debating it with a good friend of mine because um I I will come up with the craziest things that he can't disapprove and he has to give up. So there's a Saturday night for you. But anyway, but I love well, I love I love the theoretical stuff because, in all seriousness, like it allows me to just with my mind, you know, play with somebody I've never played with before. Um, everybody else has a chart, but I have to I have to sort of like be able to figure out okay, I I hear that there's a you know a raised fourth scale degree, and this is probably gonna move into the dominant. Yeah, so all these things I can I can I can use. Yeah. Um and then when you start writing string arrangements and stuff like that, it's pretty handy. Um, and you know, and honestly, um I my living's made primarily as a producer and a studio owner, but I I I uh for for me personally, the weaker it is the better I like it. But when I work for other people, I don't go that route. But for me personally, uh oh yeah, I I want the on 11s. Give me a lot of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

I uh I I know exactly what you mean. So I didn't discover that stuff till like I mentioned much later in my musical career.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

But um one thing that I that was kind of eye-opening for me is when I started studying this stuff, theory anyway, yeah. Um it kind of shattered my illusions into thinking music was an art. It's more of a science because it I don't know, I always thought music was this art, but then I started studying it. Well, wait a minute, this is more of a science than anything. I can apply it. And I was able to use that knowledge to pretty much almost play in any situation. Exactly. And it's like, oh, this is what they're doing. This is a, you know, you your your typical, you know, it's a uh it's uh it's it's a six six one five progression. You know, I just had to use this the other day um playing with another group. Oh, this is just a six one five and it repeats, and yeah, I was able to you got playing any key. That's right. Um uh but yeah, I s and then you know, and then you get into modal stuff, you know, like you know, Ionian, Aeolian, Lydian, etc. etc. Absolutely. And it's like, oh, this song is just in Lydian mode. It sounds complex, but it's just Lydian. Oh, okay. It so that's what that's what I mean by it shatters the illusion that it's art. It's like, oh, I I just broke it down. That's what this is what it is.

Joey Stuckey 11:53

Well, that's the that's that is the beauty to me, because I love, I have a very dual nature, and my nature uh I I really love science. I like to understand things. Uh show me the data. It's like, you know, but yeah, but I also love like just you know, the actual the sort of spiritual nature of an artist, and that's that's why music's this perfect thing to me because it's it's science and art you know together. It's really um it's that's why it's so exciting to be in it. And um when you this so this this answered my question perfectly. So you have you know explored music from a lot of different directions. And as I say, when I finally got started, I kind of started with the theory mainly to compensate for the fact that I couldn't see. Um, and and so that's the other thing was that I've I decided that I was gonna be the band leader and make people follow me because that's just easier for me. Oh it was like, I mean, you know, now in the studio I'm a session musician, I play people's records all the time. But but but as a as a as a live performance, I'm like, yes, I will tell you when to start and stop. When I do my guitar net like this, that means quit. Yeah, you know, so because I can't watch you. So, you know, and people don't like to be felt anymore like they used to. Um the uh the the thing that I love is um that you have applied this um so so expertly. You you uh you be you're uh you're enamored with the 10,000 Maniacs, they are your uh you know, as you said, Ed Sullivan moment. And and and you began to uh go to some of their concerts, and um, and then if I remember correctly, um you you became friendly with sort of the management uh of the band. Right. Um and so then uh you know you you start you know playing professionally around town and with different bands and stuff like that. But then what what happened to I mean it's it's amazing to me that your Beatles like eventually say, Hey, uh you need to play with us. Like, I mean that that to me is like a fairy tale. I I love it. So tell tell me how that happened and and what that was like.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

Well, it wasn't that they initially said that you need to play with us, but um, they were well so I've known you know their at their management at the time and them, you know, very just you know um you know, not in intimate terms, but you know, whenever they came into town we'd chat, you know, since 95. Um so and their their manager at the time put me on every guest list that um every time they came to Chicago. So I've I've attended pretty much every show since 95 whenever they came into the Chicago area. Anyway, fast forward to I start playing professionally in about 20 2010 I start playing professionally. Um they're uh the the maniacs are on social media more, they have more of a presence, you know. We become you know social media friends too, and and um uh so they were aware that I played. Um anyway, fast forward 2024, their their lead guitar player, Jeff Erickson, um, stepped down to um go work at the National Comedy Center in Jamestown, New York, which is a very great gig for you know for him. It's a real good opportunity. No one blames him for not missing out on that. But anyway, they were in a bind. Um they they had um they hired a guy named Joe Rosler, who's uh a mus uh a musician who plays in many, many bands in the Buffalo area, very similar to me. He's just you know, he's got his fingers in just about every pot over there, and just um anyway, so they hired him on as the player, but anyway, he had some conflicts with a couple dates. There was a couple dates he couldn't do because of some commitments he had to other bands in the Buffalo area, and they just happened to be in Chicago, and they approached me after the show saying, Hey, um, you know, they knew I played. Can you just help cover those two dates? And I was like, Yeah, sure. I yeah, I I I already know the songs, so they so they sent me in for um just an audition, and then after that, after that audition is when they asked me to actually join full-time.

Joey Stuckey 16:41

That that just is so remarkable. I I think that is so cool.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

I don't think they realized how uh how obsessed I was with their um yeah, to to how much uh of the material that I that I knew.

Joey Stuckey 16:58

So did you did you learn to play a lot of 10,000 Maniac songs just as a matter of course, just on your own, you know, prior to that? Yeah, wow. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

I mean that's that's basically how I learned advanced um guitar technique is just from watching them on TV, I was just fascinated, like, you know, how how's he doing that? How's he doing this chord? How is this you know that's a neat sound? How's he doing that?

Joey Stuckey 17:23

And what is it you think that because I mean the the you know, a lot of bands go through personnel transitions and and can't survive it. I mean it you know, it's it's it's uh it's tough. Um and I mean I can't imagine, you know, well, if Bono left you too, I don't know that they would, you know, I don't know. Um but but you know the the band has continued um and and people love it as much as ever they have. And um what do you attribute that to? Because you certainly had you know a few personnel changes over the years. What do you think makes makes this band so special that it there's some there's something still really amazing about about the sound and about the the the songs, and and you know, you've had transitions, but it hadn't really hurt you.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Well, I I don't know, it's hard to say because a lot like you said, a lot of bands don't survive that, but I mean it's not unprecedented. I mean it's happened before, you know. Genesis is uh one of the big examples. Van Halen's another one that's survived. Oh yeah. Genesis uh, yeah. Um and even to some extent, a lot of these um uh you know bands like you know, even Journey, although they may not have had commercial success, but they have touring success. I mean, they still sing out everywhere. Big time. Um, you know, Foreigner, you know, Sticks, they still you know, they survived that, but uh, you know, they're killing it out there as far as you know touring. You know, it I mean it's happened, but um but anyway, as in regards to the maniacs, I don't know. It's the the sound has always been the maniacs, uh regardless of who the um the front person is. But I mean it it did help that you know um Mary Ramsey joined a duo with John Lombardo, who's a founding member of the Maniacs, uh uh did a duo called John and Mary back in the early 90s. That was kind of you know, as far as um maniacs fans are concerned, those John and Mary albums are just an extension or uh a branch off of the Maniacs. Uh as it's already a branch that was just grafted on. And um, you know, those the first two John and Mary albums are just sequels to um their their album named uh the wishing chair. The they're just successors of those. So it was just kind of natural when when Natalie Merchant left for to bring John and Mary into the fold, it just it it was just seamless, at least from from uh an obsessed fans perspective, I guess. Well you you want to know.

Joey Stuckey 20:20

Yeah. Oh yeah, right. Yeah. I think that's fantastic. And what do you think? Like, do you uh when you think about I I I guess for lack of a better word, like the the legacy of of the band and your sort of transition uh from uh um you know uh like soup to from into a super fan, right? So I mean like how do you feel any uh or did you feel any any pressure, any nerves? Like, oh my god, I'm playing like the songs that changed my life when I was younger. I mean, how how did you how do you manage that sort of like that that super fandom uh and and like the legacy that you are continuing but also preserving?

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Well, um I s I still struggle with it, but um the way I manage it is uh through schizophrenia. Gotcha. Uh I it's two different personalities. I I have the fan personality, the super fan personality, and then when I'm on the stage, I'm somebody else. I have to be. There's no way I can survive.

unknown 21:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

So when I'm on the stage, I gotta turn that other personality on and don't let the other one in. There's been times where the other one was let in in the middle of the stage, and I'd be like, what am I doing here? And then I lose track of where I'm I lose track of what I'm doing.

Joey Stuckey 21:48

I have I I gotta tell you, I kind of know what that's like in the sense that uh just upgraded my studio with the with a new uh SSL console. It's price it cost the price of a small house. I mean, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And I I literally have been walking, we we installed it uh recently, and I literally walk in and go, I cannot believe I have this. Also, I'm sorry to lose you money. Like, where did you go? But but I mean I I felt that sort of like you know, like wow moment when you're like, I can't believe this is this is happening. And and the other one for me is I I've worked with Alan Parsons um and became became uh a nominal assistant um and and and got to actually make some decisions on some records. And oh, cool. And and he was like, you know, and he he became he like trusted me, he trusted my ears, and he literally sent me a video message, uh, which is on my YouTube channel, and it and he says, Um, just so everybody knows, Joey Stucky has the best ears in the business. They're way better than they're way better than mine. So I don't have a Grammy and I don't have a platinum album, but I do have that plus uh and roll in Rollin for Cole. Well, and the other one is Ed Roland from Collective Soul made me coffee hot. So that was but you know, but what I'm saying is like when I was with Alan Parsons, yeah, this is the man that's worked with the Beatles and Pink Floyd, yeah. And so you know, you have that moment where you know you're trying to act like a professional, you know, and you're like, yeah, okay, I've got to calm down. Like, I've got to like you say you flip that switch. You flip that switch, you flip that, and so I I love it. I'm curious too, if you because this is this is a geeky question, uh, but I I would like to talk about your guitar rig because I'm wondering like what you chose to keep the same as far as tonalities and and and things for the the classic tunes, and then have you changed your rig to to express yourself more? Or like how do you how do you how do you define your sound, you know, your place in the band? Is it a gear choice? Is it is it uh voicings of chords? I mean, what is it that that that brings you into the fold as an artist?

SPEAKER_02 24:06

As far as equipment goes, it's the the my maniacs rig is very very different than what I usually play because mainly because the maniacs don't want amps on stage, they're all completely ampless, so um we they play completely through um processors to so that is that is that like a visual thing that they that they want like a no no it's for um to help with it it's be it's the uh because of hearing loss over the years. Oh so having no amps on stage and playing through processors allows for a quiet stage. So um and you use in-ear monitors to actually adjust your mix to um what uh to the levels of what you actually want to hear, and instead of having these big wedges and amplifiers on stage just blasting you. Um anyway, you know, uh yeah, I I believe a couple of the members uh have you know have some hearing loss or or trouble or or tinnitus, uh members have. And um, yeah, that's just been a necessity. So they you have to play amplis on stage using processors anyway. So so I play through uh basically I play through a computer. Um and our front of house engineer, Dave Hone, he actually programs all the sounds uh, you know, to closely match what the what the maniac sound is, and you know, I just I just trust Dave's judgment and I just use those those tones that he programs for me.

Joey Stuckey 25:49

But does he switch them? Does he like switch them or do you switch them? I switch them, I switch them.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

You know, I I I work with him to you know um to establish some of the sounds that you know um but um but mainly you know that that's all him. Um so I I just use what Dave programs and but you know very different than what I use um um and my local gigs over here in uh northern Illinois. Um yeah, all all my the the the the stuff I use locally, it's all amps and traditional pedals and I've got them linked in all sorts of different ways. I got like four different rigs, and one of them being the maniacs rig, but that I guess that's not really my rig. So I gotcha.

Joey Stuckey 26:40

Are you a tube guy or you or you prefer solid state? What's your what's your uh poison there?

SPEAKER_02 26:44

I mean I I prefer tube, but I play with solid state, and that's just something I've learned over the you know over decades of playing out with many different bands and bar gigs and stuff like that, especially in the winter. Tube amps are pretty unreliable when you abuse them like that, playing gig after gig after gig in these harsh environments like you know, bars and you know. So I've learned to play with solid state, it's just better, more reliable. I've had a heck the amp I use right now, it's lasted me for about 10 years now, and uh with no issues where I can't say that about my tube amps.

Joey Stuckey 27:30

Well, I mean I I I feel your pain. I I really do. I I um I well if it if it's if it's not uh too personal. Uh what what amp are you using? What what what are you using for your oh man?

SPEAKER_02 27:43

My trusty workhorse amp is a pretty rare Roland GA212. Not too many people have heard of that amp. They aren't. Roland released it um for one year in 2012, I believe. And it didn't sell well, and then they discontinued it. Anyway, I was one of the suckers who bought it. But yeah, I I say I say sucker. Not really. I love the amp.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

It is a great amp, and I'm just surprised it didn't sell more. It just it didn't um it didn't sell well for Roland and they discontinued it. That did not last long, but uh I maybe my amp will be worth some money, but uh, but it's a very rare amp. That is really interesting. Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 28:29

Well so I guess I guess the clean tone, you know, I would imagine from Roland is pretty good. Um yeah, it's great. And then and and so is it is it sort of a uh PA like grade speaker for pedals and stuff? Or how does it color it?

SPEAKER_02 28:44

No, it's gray. Um it's uh it's a weird amp because it uses um Roland's um uh uh uh digital technology to do um distortion on it. It's it's kind of like one of their one of their um one of their distortion pedals is almost built into the circuitry. So um it's it's a very weird app. Um it's hard to describe really, but anyway, that's probably why it didn't sell well. But um anyway, you could go very clean with it or you could go very dirty, but it's a very digital type of dirty. Okay, I guess that's not a good thing. I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 29:33

Do you do you carry so do you carry uh how how many guitars do you carry with you on your road?

SPEAKER_02 29:38

With the maniacs, I carry one, two, three, four. Four guitars with me on the road. No, maybe five. I can't remember. Four or five on the road with the maniacs.

Joey Stuckey 29:54

Now, are those like safety guitars, or like do you change them out every at during the shows?

SPEAKER_02 29:59

Well, one is my normal guitar, my standard one. The second one will be a backup guitar in case you know I break a string or something happens with the standard one, and then the other ones are um they have special tunings on them for some songs. Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 30:15

Well, that makes sense. That makes sense. I I've I I think that is so smart because um you know a lot of people will try and sort of retune live, and I'm don't do that. You're asking for trouble. And also, I find like if I'm leaving it in alternate tuning, then I really need to have the neck looked at again. And yeah, oh yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

Yep. You're exactly right. You can't just tune a guitar to an open tuning, you have to do the you know, the intonation and the action just right. It the the neck has to be adjusted to for that specific tuning, for sure.

Joey Stuckey 30:52

Yeah, I mean I you know that that that's why I have and um I think we should uh I think I think you probably I I feel like you and I might be on the same page with this. I I definitely need an intervention because I've got 70 guitars and bass. Oh gosh. So I was I want to see how many you have been. I've I've I have twenty five. Oh my gosh, you need more. Yeah, I do. I need a lot more. I I clearly have not been part of your life enough because I can encourage you to spend money and buy guitars. So Oh man, let's not get together.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

Uh we'll spell trouble.

Joey Stuckey 31:28

If you ever wonder if you should, just email me and I'll say yes. Go, go get that.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Oh man, uh the only thing stopping me is just my financial situation.

Joey Stuckey 31:38

Well, you know, you can go sell a little plasma or something, you know? Oh yeah, maybe make ends meet. I the the thing I I do, I mean, I really as a session player, and I want this is what I kind of want to talk to you about next. Uh as a session player myself, I mean, you know, I I actually feel like a demented you know scientist because I'm I'm constantly trying to craft something unique for every situation. So I'm constantly blending amps and guitars and mics and pedals. Oh, cool. You know, trying to try to get it all together. So one of do you how much time, how much bandwidth do you have outside the maniacs? I mean, that's obviously probably your your main uh touring uh setup, but but are you doing other projects as well?

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Yeah, I'm in I'm in five other projects um besides the maniacs. Yeah, I don't I don't have time for anything. As soon as I get off of a maniacs tour, I'm already playing with you know other bands in the local area. I just played last night and I'm playing today.

Joey Stuckey 32:37

So Well, you know, I I do love that. I mean it's awesome to be busy and to be sought after. And I have it sounds like maybe you've got the same uh feeling. I got a real restless spirit, and if I don't um if I don't play, uh I start feeling weird.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

No, yeah, I discovered that I discovered that in late 2023. Um I'd already been playing I don't know how long. I was you know, I've been playing since 2010, so you know, do the math, I guess. I got so fed up with uh with playing out, it was just you know band after band after band, bar after bar after bar, song after song after song, as just it got to me and I was and I just decided, okay, that's it. I'm retiring from music, I'm hanging it up, I can't do this anymore. It's getting to me. And then I went ahead and you know, I played my last show, hung it up, and that was probably October of 2023. By December of that year, I was already like, what did I do? Why did I do this? I it's I it was it was an instant regret. And um yeah, and uh funnily enough, that's when you know that February the following February is when the maniacs thing fell on my lap. So um yeah, so the maniacs were actually my first band out of retirement, or my my quote unquote retirement. Yeah, that's amazing. That is amazing. And now I'm in five other projects, so um it sucked me back in.

Joey Stuckey 34:27

Well now, d do you like do you prefer the road like concerts or do you prefer studio work?

SPEAKER_02 34:33

Like do you have a preference or I don't have a preference, but uh I mean uh uh if I had to choose one, it'd be I like I like the road. I I actually like the road. I travel very well. I love to travel. I I'll sit in a plane or bus or a car all day. That doesn't hurt bother me at all.

Joey Stuckey 34:54

Well, you know, the th I I for some reason I don't mind flying like from I live an hour south of Atlanta, so uh uh you know so uh I don't mind a flight to New York or you know Wisconsin or or something like you know, but that LA flight for some reason just aggravates the crap out of me. I hate that flight so bad. And what I hate worse is LAX. If Ben, if you have not been a blind person trying to get through LAX with a guitar, you will not be aware of what hell is. So I mean it's so terrible. But but any but uh LAX is just like I don't know, it's the work of the devil's all I'm saying. Um the uh I just wonder like how do you this is something I really like to talk about because um I again, you know, I I uh I make no adrenaline, I have no uh adrenal system, I have no indicant system, all this for the brain tumor. Uh yeah, you know, I work, you know, 12 hour days or whatever, um, and and I do what I want to do. Um out of sheer bloody mindedness, frankly. I just decided like uh uh this is what I'm gonna do, and uh I don't I don't ever really feel well, uh, but I'm just gonna ignore that. So uh but I have to very carefully manage how I use my time and you know how I protect my energy. Now, with you being in so many bands, so many projects, and being on the road, do you have uh things you do? Because this is I I like to talk about it because I think people, uh musicians traditionally have not been you know the best at being healthy and staying healthy on the road. Do you have uh a regimen? Do you have a way of staying healthy that you try to preserve? Do you have a schedule that you like to maintain? How does that work for you?

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Look, I'm still trying to figure that out, actually. You know, because I I am not a healthy person by any means. So yeah, I'm trying, I'm trying. So I'm trying to figure it out.

Joey Stuckey 36:46

Yeah, well that's yeah, yeah. I mean, because I just think that's so important. If you look, I think it was seven, eight years ago, but like Megan Trainer, Adele, you know, hospitalized for exhaustion. Yeah, you know, uh the music business is very tough and uh and very busy, and you want to say yes to everything, and because some some one day they're gonna they're not gonna ask you anymore. I mean, you know, what you know so you want to say yes to everything, but I've I've really always been so fascinated. Joey does not have the ability to work 300 days a year. I just couldn't do it. Uh yeah. So I I'm more of a studio guy, but I love live shows, man. And we I play 20 a year or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Yeah, so yeah, ask me this question maybe a year from now, but right now, like, you know, this is why I'm in five different projects because I can't say no. I mean, it is a fickle business, you know. You say no sometimes to the you know to the wrong thing or the right thing, and you're forgotten about fast. Yeah, you know, and then you're not getting work, you know.

Joey Stuckey 37:43

It's you you cannot stop pushing. Yeah, you it it requires at least in my experience, is it may you have to maintain constant effort for forward momentum. Um and if if you if you slack up at all, you're gonna lose ground. Okay. I mean, you know, how do you guys uh fight that that that juggernaut?

SPEAKER_02 38:22

Oh man, I don't know. That's a that's a good question, but I mean and the music's good. I mean, uh can't deny that, but yeah. I mean it it helps that they have a legacy, for sure. You know, people are willing to listen to their new stuff because just because of their their past legacy. Right. I don't know, uh you know, it'd be tough if they were a brand new band starting off today trying to get their music heard. It's tough for any band to get their music heard. There's just so much where it's it's oversaturated. Music, I mean, uh it's there's so much music now, almost to the point where music is worthless. I mean, it's it's um it's just so much of it. Well, I mean, I guess the proof's in the pudding, mu albums don't sell anymore. So I guess as you could I guess you can make a case that music is worthless now as far as uh financial uh uh nobody's buying albums, especially when it's just available at the you know at a mouse click or uh phone click or phone tap or whatever you want to call it. Yeah. Yeah, uh you can't go out and nobody goes out and buys albums anymore. It's real tough to discover new music. I mean, well, no, it's it's tough and it's easy to discover new music, but there's so much of it that you know and it's analysis paralysis. I mean Yeah, exactly. How how would a new band, you know, it's uh stick out? I mean, it's tough.

Joey Stuckey 39:54

So with your with your other projects, like what what what kind of stuff are you doing there? Are you are you more of an eclectic player? Do you like a lot of different genres, or do you kind of stick to one lane? Which what's what's going on outside the Maniacs?

SPEAKER_02 40:07

Yeah, I've you know, I I'm in there's country bands that I'm in. Um, you know, country pays the bills, that's that's what's popular around here, so country bands. Um last night I played with more of an RB slash jazz type of band. Cool. Um, you know, um the week prior I play with a pop band, you know, playing pop stuff. Um yeah, mostly they're mainly cover bands. I have I am in one one group that is all originals. So um and we're rec we're recording right now for uh uh you know an EP. Nice! But yeah, we're trying to get that off the ground.

Joey Stuckey 40:53

So just what's the name of that band, Ben? Because I want to pimp it.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Gino is so G-E-N-O. That's uh that's the name of the project.

Joey Stuckey 41:04

And and what genre did you say this was? What what's the the vibe?

SPEAKER_02 41:07

Uh the vibe is more maybe gym blossoms if I had to give it a you know sort of a vibe.

Joey Stuckey 41:12

Well so alternative sort of you know pop rock. Yeah, I I love that stuff. Um and and like do you how much time do you spend uh like writing guitar parts or writing songs? I mean how what how much of that do you like to get into? Do you you just kind of like play around what somebody else wrote or do you like to write your own stuff or what's what's your process?

SPEAKER_02 41:35

I'm not I'm not really a a writer per se. I mean I've tried and it's not very good. So I depend on I depend on people way better than me to do that stuff. So in the Gino project, I mean I I'm working with this with this genius songwriter named Steve Steve Dean. I mean, he's probably one of the best songwriters around in this area, and he writes really good stuff, so I just play around what he's what he does. So yeah, it's a real genius guy.

Joey Stuckey 42:03

So and what about what about like because I know um there are those of us who uh you talk about Charlie Parker who you know I don't know if this is apocryphal, but you know, this was said he's practicing about 17, 18 hours a day. How much time do you spend how do you spend practicing? Do you do you practice much or you mostly just get out and do it? Not as much as I should.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

You know, I most of the time when I'm playing um alone in in my house, it's because I'm going over the set list for the next band I'm playing in or the next show. That's that's what's consuming my time. I don't really have enough free time to sit around and just write something or to even practice anymore. It always seems like you know, I'm playing somewhere, or so I gotta brush up on a set list.

Joey Stuckey 42:53

So no, it's I mean it's true. Like we we uh I mean I have the same the same choices to make, you know. Well, gee. Uh I was saying now, do I practice or do I get a nap? Like you know, I may have to take the nap. Uh but you know, I I do I do sort of uh miss the days when uh when I was a little younger and had a little just a little more free time to get in there, like try to work on stuff. But I I I find that you know um really uh most of what I need, I mean I put my 10,000 hours in, most of what I need is is uh is there. Uh I mean it's not saying that you can't always improve, but I I just but when when it comes to you know inspiring you know yourself to to keep playing and to keep you know being on the road and to have this lifestyle, I mean are are there any bands that excite you just to listen to that get you fired up in your imagination and and your and and your desire to just like you know experience new music?

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Well uh yeah. Um so um so to go back to the one of the bands I'm in, uh another project that I joined is this up-and-coming country artist um who also does original music, by the way. So I guess there's two projects that I do original music in. Uh her name is uh McKenna Faith Winters. She's an up-and-coming artist, she's only 18 years old, um, but she's um already starting to go out on the road. And uh we so we've been touring with them a little bit too. Um anyway, um, so that band, um, there's a few cover uh her music I'm actually pretty inspired by uh because it's really good stuff. Um and then and then in turn, you know, there's a couple cover tunes we do in that project um by this other country artist named Ella Langley. I believe she's one of the biggest country acts in the world right now. And I didn't realize this, but you know, I'm I'm barely hearing her songs for the first time playing for McKenna. And I was like, whoa, this is this artist is really good. Uh who is this artist? And then I started discovering her El Ella Langley's music. And then come to find out she's the biggest country artist in the world. It's like I've been I feel like I've been living under a rock. But anyway, I've been into her new album as well. So McKenna Faith Winters and Ella Langley are kind of what's inspiring me right now.

Joey Stuckey 45:26

So that's awesome. That's fantastic. Yeah, I I mean it is so hard to find new music. And yeah, um, I I have a uh one of my my my new single just dropped, and um yeah and yeah, so I we uh I was able to convince the Les Paul Foundation um to let me be the first person to record at their studio. It's not up to the public. Um but it's the revamped, I mean re uh configured 1957 console that Les had custom made over a hundred two over a hundred tubes and um and on and only eight channels. And I was like, well, I I sure would love to record here, but yeah, we don't really do that. And and uh yeah, but but it would be so cool. It was like a I was a blind guy, like I want to experience the sonic journey of this console. And uh so when I was there, it was no, and then by the time I left it was maybe, and that was their air, that was their mistake. Because then I I what I heard was I've almost gotten them to yes. So finally I did get them to yes. And I oh, that's so cool! Yeah, yeah. So we did it, we did an EP in like 12 hours, and uh we we knocked it out, and I'm you know, I'm I'm uh I'm all about being ready to rock when it's time. So we did that, and so I was checking my single to make sure it played okay, and it was coming up in iTunes and all this stuff, and and so for the first time in a long time I heard some new music. Now, I have no idea how new or old this band is, but I was so inspired by it. And why they played it after my song, I don't know. Um, but it's a band called P A I a uh dash D. And uh so it's fantastic, and I just I I love it. I was like, this is great. So what's the name of the band again? I'm gonna lay it down here. Yeah, P A I Dash D. So basically cane with a dash in it. Weird. And uh it's a little EP. I can't think of the name of the EP, but it's fabulous. And it's you know, it's alternative, you know, you know, real dreamy guitars, and you know, I mean, it it kind of reminds me of the stuff we we were digging back in the 90s a little bit, you know. Um so it, but boy, I mean, and the the female vocalist is just fantastic, and it's just well, hey, since we're since we're chatting, let me tell you, so I don't know if you've heard of the company uh Btronics, um, but they make uh guitar pedals, effects effects pedals. And they're they're boutiquey, weird, like not your everyday pedal. Um, like you, you know, they're not something you could use like on every song. Like they're they're they have something called the pollinator, which uh is basically a delay pedal, but what you can do is the initial attack of the guitar is unaltered, but the delays are like wildly configurable as far as like maybe like maybe the delay has an octave, but the guitar doesn't, right? Sure, sure, sure. All kind of weird stuff. I mean, just nice. You can you can introduce like random glitching in the delays, all kind of funky stuff. So again, you know, I'm like, hey guys, I'm an L edge or would love to visit the you know the the um visit you guys and check it out. And they let me come in and play all their pedals. I only left with three, which was which I think was great restraint. Great restraint, yes. But what I was gonna say is um the the reason I mentioned that is because they're uh they're all session players and and uh stuff at the at its company, and there's a really cool country band called Wyman and the Wolves. Okay, and uh man, that stuff is so cool. But they use the Btronics pedals. Oh, cool. So it's country, but it's weird country. It's really good. Wyman and the wolves. Check it out. It's it's I was like, wow, this is awesome. I it was just so cool. But now when so are you in are you based uh in Chicago still, or where are you?

SPEAKER_02 49:15

Um I always say Chicago because nobody actually knows the city I'm you know when I say the city I am from, nobody recognizes it. It's Rockford, Illinois. They're only Rockford's only claim to fame is the home of cheap trick. So that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. So that's where I'm from.

Joey Stuckey 49:33

So is that are you are you are you found in that area a lot, or do people need to travel to see you?

SPEAKER_02 49:39

No, I'm found in that area a lot. Um, except when I'm playing with the maniacs or with McKenna Faith Winners. So we try to put, you know, with McKenna Faith Winners, we try to play outside the area. Um so but like I said, she's getting ready to start touring. So yeah.

Joey Stuckey 49:55

Wow, I would I wish her all the best because I that's that's sounds I mean, you know, and if she's exciting you yeah, I'm very lucky that they want that they included me in her into her fold.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

She's very, very up-and-coming artist, very excited to be part of that.

Joey Stuckey 50:09

So she has a label or is she just uh out there like you know, it's all independent, yeah, all independent.

SPEAKER_02 50:15

Yeah, you yeah, you'll find her on all the platforms, but yeah.

Joey Stuckey 50:18

What what do you think, Ben, about about the situation of labels vis-a-vis being all independent? What's your what's your take on that?

SPEAKER_02 50:26

I'm all for it. I mean, yeah. I mean, a lot of times, you know, back in the day, the labels were you know, there was extreme gatekeeping going on back in the day. Um but then again, you know, there was there was more money flowing around back then too. I mean, the the the the downside is not well there's not as much money, and it's not as lucrative to be a musician nowadays as it was back in the day, but it's a trade-off, I guess. But I I love that anybody could be can do music now, that's for sure. It's just now you know the consequence of that is there's so much music now, because anybody can do it. Um you don't need a label anymore. But now as a consequence, there's so much music that it's really oversaturated, really.

Joey Stuckey 51:14

Yeah, I I mean I think about this all the time. Um, you know, uh and this podcast is dedicated to you know sharing sort of the triumphant stories of our guests, um, but through the conversation, you know, revealing inspiration and an education that people can take and use in their own careers. And so it's very much a you know, for music nerds, buy music nerds, deep dive, you know, rabbit holy kind of thing. Uh so definitely a niche uh market. But you know, it it is it is the thing. I mean, my my my heart says I'm so happy that that nobody's left out and everybody can be part of the music if they want. Uh my pocketbooks is not as happy about that.

unknown 51:53

Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 51:55

So I mean, you know, so it's it's it really is. I mean, you know, I got the music business to be an artist, but but me being a producer and studio engineer is what pays for my habit of being an artist. And you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Yeah, me being in five different projects is what pays bills. Yeah. So I gotta I gotta be gotta have my fingers in every pot.

Joey Stuckey 52:17

How do you how do you pick I mean how do you pick like which projects you'll join and which ones you won't? I mean, what is your kind of what's what's your what's your model uh of of success and how you you know how you do get what you need to get to stay in the business?

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Well I don't know. Um well number one, uh the fact that they asked me to join or want me to join is you know a big part of it. And um and number two, that I mean we just gel. So I mean if if I can get along with the you know, and the in the music and and I can play along with the music or or I can serve the purpose of the music, that's fine. That's all it's enough for me.

Joey Stuckey 52:58

Yeah, yeah. I've always been the same way as far as like I never was um and you know, no shade, like hey, what people live live your life however you want to live it. It's none of my business. But uh I have never been personally interested in the quote unquote you know rock and roll lifestyle. I I'd all the music's always been enough for me. I mean, that's that's all I've ever that's all I want to do is make records. I mean, I just you know, I want to make records, I want to perform live, I want to just I want to be out there and just do that. And um, and so I mean that's the reason that I get up in the morning and you know, and it and so that's that's it. That's that's why I fight through the nonsense that I fight through health-wise, like so I can make a record, you know. So, you know, but I I I love, I mean, I do love the the um I I do love there's so many, you know, interesting things happening, you know, sonically in the music business too. Do you think that with with the independent landscape the way it is, where you know, everybody can be on Spotify, everybody can be on Apple Music, everybody can be on Amazon, whatever. But are you finding when you're out and about that people are more or less eclectic? Like are there are people's minds expanding to include more genres, or do you think they're they're closing in and becoming more tightly focused?

SPEAKER_02 54:14

I don't know. That's that's difficult to say because I I'm probably the wrong person to ask because I don't really know what everybody's listening to, really. Yeah. That's not something that really comes up in conversations these days, whereas, you know, when I was younger, I guess you we used to talk about music all the time, but it seems like these days people don't really talk about music anymore. Yeah, at least not as much. Not as much. So I guess I don't I don't know what people's ta if people's tastes are more eclectic now. I don't know. It's hard to say.

Joey Stuckey 54:52

Yeah, it's it's interesting. I I wonder about that uh uh as a as a point of music business strategy, you know. I I I wonder about I mean we were trained when I went to college the first time, and I was in like the marketing department and stuff, um, you know, the thing that you would talk about was you know, target your audience. Like who are you trying to reach and how do you reach them and where do they hang out and all this stuff, but that has become uh a little bit harder to do. Yeah. But but but what you know, but I have had many, many, many people tell me over the course of my career that I am too eclectic and you know it's gonna be hard to market and it's gonna be hard to sell. And um, and and the I'm not saying that's untrue. Um what I have decided is that it doesn't really matter because if I don't do who I who I am, I'm not happy. So you know, I wasn't gonna sell 80,000 seat arenas anyway. I mean, you know, so I I like the eclecticism, and it I've been I feel like um and I was just wondering if you had a different perspective, but I I feel like from what I can observe that we are getting to be you know more eclectic, uh that that the the the genre lines are getting blurred, um, which I which I like. I think that's all to the good.

SPEAKER_02 56:10

Yeah, I mean the yeah, from that perspective, yeah, I guess things are getting more eclectic, but at the same time not because they are getting blurred, it's all blending together, it's just almost becoming, you know, it's it's everything's just um uh you know what's eclectic anymore? It's it's it's all bit getting blurred.

Joey Stuckey 56:28

Um I remember when I was a kid, uh you know, 11 years old, something like that, and I was a kid in the 80s, and uh, you know, I remember that we would go to the record store you know once a week, something like that, and uh three or four of us would get together and we would spend our allowances and we'd go buy you know vinyl records or whatever it was, tapes or whatever. Um, and and we'd come back to my house because I had the better stereo. And and uh a blind man should have a good stereo. Uh and so we would come back and literally sit down and like listen to all the stuff we just bought and talk about it. Yeah, and sometimes we'd talk, sometimes we'd play one of the records again. Yeah, that record was really good. Let's let's hear it again. But I don't I don't see that happening as much. It seems it seems like in Europe there's still a little bit more space for music as like sort of a lifestyle thing. Um it seems like maybe I mean they have, at least from what I can tell, my limited touring there, you know, they have more listening rooms and you know, places where people come to to value music. And you know, the pay is just as bad there as it is here, but but uh but but there does seem to be a focus on still making time for it and and still chatting about it more. Um and so yeah, I was just wondering what you'd seen on the road. And I don't know if the 10,000 bailing acts if you guys do like meet and greets afterwards or or go to the merch table yourself or or not, but I just wonder what you'd seen.

SPEAKER_02 57:53

I mean what I see out there is mainly with young people is that music is a private experience now. I mean with the s advent of the smartphone and you know the you know in your earbuds, they just people just listen to music in their earbuds, you know, very privately, and that's not really shared. It's not a shared experience with your friends anymore. I that's what I from my perspective anyway, that's kind of what I see.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

So that's that's that's that's interesting. Yeah. Um it's not like it was like you said in the old days, where you could sit around your room with your friends, you you blast an album, or even riding around in your car is what I used to do a lot in with my friends, you know, and you know, driving around in you know, high school age, blasting music in your car, it's a shared experience. I'm not sure that's really done anymore. I I don't know. Yeah, it doesn't seem like it.

Joey Stuckey 58:47

No. Oh man, you you you look 35. Oh, okay, sure. I'll take that.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

Yeah.

Joey Stuckey 58:52

Hey, listen, for me it's true. You can look any way I want you to. Uh I will I wanna I wanna, as we draw near the end of our time together, I want to ask you um two things. The first thing is do you have a favorite 10,000 Maniacs tune that you always look forward to playing when you're on the road doing those tours?

SPEAKER_02 59:16

Well, um my favorite 10,000 Maniacs song and my favorite 10,000 Maniacs song to play are two different songs.

Joey Stuckey 59:25

Oh, well, tell us both.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

So my my favorite 10,000 Maniac song is a song called Even With My Eyes Closed. That's my all-time favorite 10,000 Maniac song. We don't really play that out much, so um, we have played it out, but it it's not brought out a lot. Um but anyway, my favorite 10,000 Maniac song to play is City of Angels.

Joey Stuckey 59:50

So all right. Cool stuff. Well, and and then this is I'm gonna warn you, um, I'm setting you up. So I'm just I'm just I just want I I'm being courteous enough to tell you. I have to ask, I feel like this is really important. Uh I will tell you that I get a lot of grief from this on social media. Okay, but uh I do want to know from you your thoughts on uh on artificial intelligence in the creative space. My thoughts? Yes. If you have I mean if you only have one, that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:27

Yeah, well, I'm against it. So I'm I'm completely against it. I'm I don't like where it's going. I don't like it at all. I just yeah, those are my thoughts. I'm I'm very anti-AI.

Joey Stuckey 1:00:39

So just it's funny because you know, I've been accused of being anti-technology, and I'm and that's gonna be fun. My whole life revolves around technology as a as a studio person, but also as a blind person, I use all kinds of adaptive technology. Sure. So I'm all about technology, but I do feel like um we should have safeguards. I feel like we should have you know um some some federal legislation. Um and and I and I think that you know, uh if you say to me, uh if we use AI as a tool for organization or a tool for research or a tool to be a blind person's eyes, I can get behind that. If you say I want AI to write music, um now I'm not so happy. I I just think it's you know, I I guess we beat up on Sunome a lot, and and you know, I think that's actually fair because you know they they are the ones saying the the crazy stuff. But you know, basically what their CEO has said is like you know, playing music's too hard, why would you want to do that? Uh yeah, yeah, that that's really offensive.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

Yeah, I mean I mean I I don't from from from a music perspective, you know, yeah, I don't like where it's going in the AI world from a music perspective for sure. Uh it it concerns me.

Joey Stuckey 1:02:01

So well, I'm glad that that uh that we're sympathetic in that respect. I mean it just you know uh and most of my guests feel the same way. You know, we we we uh I I I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:13

I mean I you know, No, it yeah, that cat's let out of the bag, you know. You know, when I when I go to a bar and I'm hearing AI music, that's starting to get out of hand, you know, and I've been hearing that a lot. It's it's starting to really creep in now into normal society.

Joey Stuckey 1:02:33

So yeah, I I think that to I think the thing for me is that you know you mentioned this earlier in our conversation today, which is that uh music is losing its intrinsic value, yeah, and the AI is just hasting that. Yeah, I mean, you know, and so um I do believe, and call me an optimist, but I do believe that there will come a time uh when the shiny has worn off. Um I hope so. You know, and and people will say, you know, I really want to hear music for humans, made you know by humans, you know. I I really want to go back to the the old school thing of you know, it used to be you could walk into your local record store and there was always that person, right? And you're like, hey, what's cool? Right? And and they would say to you, Well, you you would probably like this. And and you know, I I miss that. I miss that so much. Like that that that fellowship.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:32

Yeah. Well, I hope you're right. I hope you're right. But I mean, but nowadays, you know, uh you know just the other month I was approached by somebody, hey, you gotta listen to this. This is so cool, listen to this, and it turns out to be AI music.

Joey Stuckey 1:03:45

So well, that is depressing.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

And they thought it was they thought it was cool. I mean, I don't think they even realized it was AI music, but they thought it was the coolest thing. And it it yeah, it was just but anyway, I hope you're right. I hope the tide change or attitudes change.

Joey Stuckey 1:04:01

Yeah, I mean, I I just the only thing I will say that kind of encourages me is uh you know, we are stuck in this utility model uh where we don't own anything, we we pay licenses. Oh gosh, yeah, and so you know there there are some frustrations, I think, finally coming. So we're we're we're losing the enamor of the fact that I can have an entire movie theater in my pocket. Um that we're starting to we're starting to say, okay, that's cool, but I was like, you know, because because what happened is like all of a sudden your favorite show is taken off some streaming platform. Now you don't have access to it, yeah. And they don't they're not making DVDs and Blu-rays anymore. So how are you gonna enjoy that show? Well, you can't. So I I think that there's gonna be a uh there seems to be a slow, slow turn towards, you know, maybe we should own the stuff again, and you know, maybe, you know, maybe we should get back to a more visceral experience with maybe vinyl records and you know, sitting down and and really having an experience again. So it seems to be that there's a very slight uh slow awakening to that. And I'm I'm just hoping that will continue and be but you know, AI moves so fast.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

Yeah, but well, you know, yeah, I hope so. I mean, you to your point on vinyl, vinyl does sell well now. I mean, even with the maniac stuff, you know, at our merch table, the vinyl sells. But at the same time, I I think vinyl's just treated as you know, it's a cool collector. Yeah, people still listen to their music on their phone. I mean, how often do you sit down and listen, you know, go and put the vinyl on the on the record player and start playing it?

Joey Stuckey 1:05:41

I mean, that's that's a good point.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:42

But vinyl still sells, so hey, we'll take advantage of that.

Joey Stuckey 1:05:47

Are you are you a vinyl? Do you have a vinyl collection?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

Yeah, but it's not it's not big, but I mean, but even in I even in my own example, I I don't listen to those records. I listen to them on my computer. You know, I mean it's not. But you know, it's I don't I don't I don't drag out the record player and start listening to my vinyl. I don't I just don't.

Joey Stuckey 1:06:10

It's well you don't have time though. That's you're busy.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

Well, I'm too busy learning people other people's music. Yeah, you got five bands to be in. Yeah, and I I gotta get ready and brush up on a set list and go do it again in a few hours here.

Joey Stuckey 1:06:24

So Well, listen, I I appreciate your time so much. It's been a true delight to visit with you. And let me just ask you this what's the best way for folks to find you if they want to check out all the projects you're doing?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:35

Um, Instagram is the best place. Um so you find me I can't even remember my handle name.

Joey Stuckey 1:06:41

Um Well, that's okay. I can't, I I I forget stuff like that too. But if if I assume if they Google you, yeah, Google means pop up.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:51

Instagram is the best place. That's where I post all of my you know comings and goings as far as music goes. I mean, I'm on Facebook as well, but I don't really post on that too much. It's mostly Instagram. Gotcha.

Joey Stuckey 1:07:03

Well, that's you know, that's that's that's a very that's a good one. I mean, my my screen reader doesn't really care for Instagram much. Uh it likes Facebook better. Yeah, it's weird what screen readers like or don't like. Um but yeah, but but the uh yeah, for for me, like the easiest thing to navigate is Facebook, although, you know, I mean it's it's sure maybe not the most exciting place. But I I uh I have truly enjoyed the opportunity to visit with you today. I appreciate you making time. It means an awful lot. And and let me just say that you know, with the 10,000 Maniacs, um that's a that's a special, that's a special project. And they have meant a lot so many people over the years, and it's it's so cool that you are part of the tradition and and that you you got there, uh you know, and and that you were uh a fan. I mean, so like you know, dreams come true sometimes. I mean, you know, I think that's really great.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:55

I thought I don't know if it's a dream. I mean, I mean, yeah, it's uh it's not you know, joining them was never on my radar ever, you know. Something that never could have even possibly happened, but I mean, but here I am.

Joey Stuckey 1:08:08

So I'm gonna I think it's great.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:10

And I'm happy to be along for the ride.

Joey Stuckey 1:08:12

So I I just can't wait to check out all your projects. I'm gonna that's what I'm gonna do tomorrow when I have a day off. So I'm gonna I'm gonna be I'm gonna be stalking you online tomorrow. All right. Thank you for your time, my friend. I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:25

Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

Joey Stuckey 1:08:27

It's such a pleasure. And friends, you can always find incredible guests that are insightful and entertaining. Uh, always at the handy URL, www.stuckonsound.com, or wherever you like to consume your podcasts.